914 1,7 starter types, were both types used? Options

[larss]

Need to service the original starter, it is the common Bosch 914 one with a short output shaft.
My spare starter is a VW411 one, also a Bosch but with a much loger output shaft
reaching in to the engine case since it has no bearing for the output side which the original has.
I thought the 411 one would just slip in but there seems to be no hole in the engine case for the shaft, still I can see this type be sold as a 914 starter on Ebay.

Were both types used in the 914 and was the hole in the case just made when the long shaft type starter was installed?


/Lars

[Cap'n Krusty]

There are TWO OE starters that fit the 914. One is known as the SR 17, the other as the SR 68. NO other OE type starter fits or works! The SR 68 was originally fitted to the 911 SC, and is of higher output than the SR 17. Anyone telling you different, especially a parts store counter person, is simply clueless.

The Cap'n

[zambezi]

It sounds like the 411 starter is not self supporting like the 911 or 914 starters. It requires a starter bushing in the bellhousing for support of the end of the starter shaft.

[underthetire]

All the auto parts stores that don't know these cars show the vw style one as the replacement. They will not work. The krusty one is correct as always on this.

[SLITS]

Cap'n Krusty knows his shit ...

SR17X (Bosch rebuilt), Lester 16300

SR68X (Bosch rebuilt), Lester 16426

Loosely referred to as the "VW automatic starter".

Walk into a FLAPS and tell them if it isn't one or the other as above, IT WON'T WORK, no matter what their incorrect catalogs say (and they won't fix the problem either).

You could also get one of the gear reduction starters that are sold. Japanese starters with a new nose.

[struckn]

Dog gone it I just ordered on line a SR15X Saturday from Advance Auto Parts that's supposed to be here Thursday for my '74 914 1.8L.
Thanks larss for posting and Ron and Jeff for your timely replies.
Advance Auto on line said it would fit the 914 4 1.8L.
I won't even open the box when it gets here, and I'll send it back.

[larss]

Thanks everyone for your help!

The two starters are pictured below (left is the 914 one and the 411 one is to the right).

I test fitted the 411 one to the 914 gearbox and it slipped in and cranked the engine but some bad noise was heard due to that this starter has no internal bearing on the output shaft. I guess it would wear out quickly since the rotor is in direct contact with and wearing out the stator. It works in the 411 since the 411 gearbox has support for the output shaft which the 914 gearbox hasn't (and therefore the 914 starter has internal support.

However after changing carbons in the 914 one it spins like never before and the problem is solved.


/Lars

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.lsmteknik.se-10787-1325095321.1.jpg)

[914Sixer]

Picture tells the story. 411/412 starter is no where close. Even the solenoid is smaller.

[Series9]

I use SR17.

[struckn]

I use SR17.

I know this is a stupid question but how do you get to the upper mounting bolt to remove the starter? All Haynes says is it's in the engine compartment. DAH

[underthetire]

It is. The bolt is captured on a boss of the starter, just take the nut off. Its the one on the top drivers side that holds the engine to the trans. Think it was a 17mm head?

[SLITS]

It is. The bolt is captured on a boss of the starter, just take the nut off. Its the one on the top drivers side that holds the engine to the trans. Think it was a 17mm head?

If the starter has the "capture" molded into the housing, the head is 15 mm. The nut in the engine compartment is 17 mm.

Some of the starters do not have the "capture" feature.

[struckn]

It is. The bolt is captured on a boss of the starter, just take the nut off. Its the one on the top drivers side that holds the engine to the trans. Think it was a 17mm head?

If the starter has the "capture" molded into the housing, the head is 15 mm. The nut in the engine compartment is 17 mm.

Some of the starters do not have the "capture" feature.

Got 'er done. The old starter which is a Bosch SF17 is off. I bench tested it and it's dead, or at least the solenoid is. The top bolt wasn't captive but once I got the bottom nut off I was able to put pressure on the top bolt to keep it from turning.

The new wrong SF15X starter came UPS yesterday and I took it to Advanced Auto and they gave me a full credit. They also Ordered me the correct SF17X at the on line discounted price I had paid for the less expensive SF15X.

I do have another question. The Solenoid only had two wires. The big center terminal for the Battery black wire and a spade terminal for the white wire. There's another small spade terminal set up to accept two wires, what was that one for?

Thanks Guys for all the info and help, this is a great Forum and don't know what I'd do if this Site wasn't around for help.

Doug

[Cap'n Krusty]

Big post for the battery and alternator cables, another big post for the wire into the starter case. One or a pair of male spade tabs for the activation wire. One of those tabs will remain unused. Occasionally there will be another tab opposite the energizing connector()s). That's not used in this application. It's for a thermotime switch or other starting functions on some other cars.

Generally speaking, the quality of parts store rebuilt rotating electrical products is about as good as their catalogs are accurate. Be prepared to do the job over again in the future .......................................................

The Cap'n

[struckn]

Thanks Cap'n that all makes sense. It was the Tabs opposite the energizing Connector I was concerned about, so all is good to go as soon as the new starter comes in, in a couple days. Should be easy installing if the upper bolt cooperates when it goes back in. I don't think I'll be able to see the hole laying on my back on a peace of card board on the garage floor. Fun learning new things at 62.

Doug