Testing engine on run stand, Need help with setup Options

[ape914]

just put it in the car, 914's are blessed with quick and easy engine install. If you didn't have to fool with the test stand, the engine could be running by now in your car. This is a waste of time and effort in my opinion.

[mikea100]

The battery + should connect to the big post on the solenoid. The first pic has that right. The battery - would connect to the mounting bolt as in the first pic as well.

The flags on the back of the solenoid are electrically the same thing as each other. You connect one (any of them) to the battery + when you want the starter to crank.

--DD

David,
What do the numbers inside wires mean in the electrical diagram? I see decimal numbers 0.5, 1.0, 1.5 as well as whole numbers (integers) 10, 15, 20 etc. I thought that those were tickness of the wire (gauge), but after I traced some of them that theory is clearly wrong.
Thanks,
Mike

[Dave_Darling]

The decimals should be the thickness of the conductor, not the whole wire with insulation.

The whole numbers may be at the ends of the wire only, and should denote the connections at a certain component. Usually there are numbers cast into the part which will match up with those numbers on the diagram. ... Oh, on the early diagram they are generally inside the outline of the component, that helps.

Example of the 70-73 type of diagram:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/914/parts/Elec...lectric_73A.jpg

On those diagrams, there is another type of number. That is used when a wire goes somewhere and ends; there will be a number there. The wire continues on the other page of the diagram, and you need to look for that same number to see where on the diagram the wire continues. On the left side of that diagram above, you can see a red wire with an "11" next to it. That wire continues on the other page of the diagram here:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/914/parts/Elec...lectric_73C.jpg
(Yeah, it's a bit lost in the other wires in the area, but the 11 is there.)

Oh, and of course there are the numbers in circles on the early diagram which are the labels telling you what the part is. You look that number up on the key. For instance, #60 is the fuse block.

--DD

[mikea100]

I traced most of the 12 pin connections, but some connections I can't fugure out for the life of me. Please correct/fill in the blanks.

T12-1 - Power to Oil Pressure Switch
T12-2 - Power To Backup Light Switch
T12-3
T12-4 - Left/Right Backup Light
T12-5 - Ignition Condenser
T12-6 - Power from Ignition Switch, I think that this is connected to the flags on the solenoid, connecting one to the battery + when cranking starter. It also connects to ECU 4 pin T4-II and T4-IV.
T12-7 - Ignition (Coil Terminal 1?)
T12-8
T12-9
T12-10/11 - Power to Heater Blower
T12-12 - Suplementary Air Valve (what is it? where is it?)

Thank you guys for helping me with this project.

[Dave_Darling]

The connections vary a little from year to year.

For 1974+ (which I am most familiar with), they go:

1= oil pressure light sender
2 = backup lights
3 = not connected
4 = backup lights
5 = tach signal wire (goes to points connection on coil)
6 = starter signal to solenoid
7 = ignition power to coil
8 = not connected
9 = not connected
10 = GREEN (on my car) wire that loops to pin #11 in the same connector
11 = looped wire to #10
12 = power to Auxiliary Air Regulator; powered by the fuel pump circuit

AAR is a vertical can to the left-front of the manifold; it has two hoses coming out of the top part and a single wire plugged in at the bottom. It provides a higher idle when the engine is cold.

--DD

[mikea100]

Thanks Dave.
I finally got a compression gauge and did the test. The numbers are pretty bad especialy #1. I'm pretty bummed out about it. The engine hasn't run since 2001, so tomorrow I'll try to adjust valves and repeat the test. I'll also make sure that the throttle wide open. The intake valve is on the left side, correct?
#1 - 40psi
#2 - 70psi
#3 - 70psi
#4 - 70psi

[Dave_Darling]

Intakes are the middle valves, exhausts are the outer ones. Notice where the intake manifold bolt up to the heads; the intake valves are there. The exhaust manifold bolts to the heads right under where the exhaust valves are.

Cold compression numbers are not going to be as good an indication as warm; they usually read low.

--DD

[mikea100]

I did the valve adjustment today and remeasured. I feel a lit bit better about #1, may be it is alive. Now if I could only find my MPS and decel valve to complete the setup (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) .
#1 - 65psi (was 40psi)
#2 - 80psi (was 70pis)
#3 - 70psi (was 70pis)
#4 - 70psi (was 70pis)

[jonferns]

Mike, I may have an MPS accessible in my mess of a garage. You can borrow it if you cant find yours. You can swing by and pick it up this week sometime if you'd like.

[mikea100]

Mike, I may have an MPS accessible in my mess of a garage. You can borrow it if you cant find yours. You can swing by and pick it up this week sometime if you'd like.

Sweet, thanks Jon. I'll txt you. I took bunch of parts bubble wrapped them and put them somewhere safe, now I can't find them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif).

[ruddyboys]

I am going to try this in a few weeks. 1st question, I understand the wiring to the starter, Can I put a lead from the battery (possibly with a toggle sw) to the + post on the coil to give power to the dizzy? The PO removed the relay board so wiring is a nightmare

[VaccaRabite]

I did the valve adjustment today and remeasured. I feel a lit bit better about #1, may be it is alive. Now if I could only find my MPS and decel valve to complete the setup (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) .
#1 - 65psi (was 40psi)
#2 - 80psi (was 70pis)
#3 - 70psi (was 70pis)
#4 - 70psi (was 70pis)

Was the engine warm and the throttle wide open when you did these?
If so, those are terrible numbers. You want to see a minimum of ~95 psi, and at 90 you start buying what you need for a rebuild.

If the engine was cold, the numbers should come up some when it is warm, but I don't know that they would come up 30 psi.

Zach

[nathansnathan]

Also you want to make sure all the spark plugs are out, I didn't know that at 1 point, or that an overlap cam will cause low compression test readings..

It's actually not that reliable, the actual numbers, in a compression test. A gauge I had about 1 1/2 years from autozone started cutting numbers in half; low readings. I've got another gauge, a Sa-on, hopefully somewhat better.

Also, I wouldn;t tust this "oil makes it better, it's the rings". I've been able to get the pressure up with oil, pull the head and the valves fail a spirits test.

Personally I wouldn't be doing compression tests warm. It's easy to gall the aluminum threads in the head, and end up pulling all the threads right out. The right tool to fix that is abot $200 and god help you if it's #2 or 4.

I suppose it's nice to have it on the run stand at that point rather than in the car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Good luck, been watching the thread, gonna make my own run stand sometime. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[mikea100]

The engine was cold, I don't believe that it has run since 2001 (at least that was the registration sticker on the car when I bought it). The throttle was wide open. I used Actron comression gauge and it was brand new. Tomorrow I'll redo the test w/ spark plug out.
http://www.amazon.com/Actron-CP7828-Profes...e/dp/B00020BM28

[mikea100]

I am going to try this in a few weeks. 1st question, I understand the wiring to the starter, Can I put a lead from the battery (possibly with a toggle sw) to the + post on the coil to give power to the dizzy? The PO removed the relay board so wiring is a nightmare

This is stock wiring of coil for D-Jet (1.7 and 2.0):
1) Green wire connects Condencer to Points to Terminal 1 (-) on Coil
2) Main harness has 2 wires branched out - black and purple. The black one connects to Terminal #15 (+) and the purple wire connects to Terminal 1 (-).

You can hot wire battery (+) to Terminal 15 (+). I believe that you MUST disconnect Green and Purple from Terminal 1 (-). IIRC that's how they test ignition switch.

[ruddyboys]

The black purple goes to the tach, so I wont be needing that at first. The green goes to the condenser, I have electronic ignition so no need for points or condenser.

[Dave_Darling]

There is no purple wire on the coil that I am aware of.

There are two black wires, one of which is thicker than the other. The thicker one probably has a red stripe on it, and gets +12V when the ignition is on. That one goes to the coil (+) terminal.

The thinner one has a purple stripe, and carries the tach signal. It connects to the coil (-) terminal, just like the wire from the points/condensor does.

The red and purple both fade, so they can be a bit difficult to tell apart. That's why I mention that the one is thicker than the other.

--DD

[mikea100]

I have great news to report. I did as Nathan suggested - cold engine, throttle open, all spark plugs out and the numbers came in excellent.
#1 - 120psi (was 65psi)
#2 - 115psi (was 80pis)
#3 - 115psi (was 70pis)
#4 - 125psi (was 70pis)
I also charged battery for 24hr, so starter was spinning a lot livelier.

There is no purple wire on the coil that I am aware of.

There are two black wires, one of which is thicker than the other. The thicker one probably has a red stripe on it, and gets +12V when the ignition is on. That one goes to the coil (+) terminal.

The thinner one has a purple stripe, and carries the tach signal. It connects to the coil (-) terminal, just like the wire from the points/condensor does.

The red and purple both fade, so they can be a bit difficult to tell apart. That's why I mention that the one is thicker than the other.

--DD

Hmm, I mine are solid black and solid purple w/ same width. PO warned me that car had electrical problems, maybe those wires were replaced.

[mikea100]

I've had no luck in getting this engine running. I get weak spark or no spark at all. I replaced spark plugs, wires, dist cap, coil, points, condenser. The central wire on the coil has good juicy spark, but 1 cyl gets very weak spark. Coil is hotwired and gets 12.8V between terminals 1 and 15, tach wire unplugged. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Also, while we're on the subject, I've read "Ignition Troubleshooting Checklist" on the Pelican site and it says that "the primary coil windings should give reading of 0.3-0.6 ohms. Secondary coils should be near 600 ohms". Is the primary coil winding between terminal 1 and 15? What is the secondary winding?

[Al Meredith]

Whenever I build an engine I run it on my engine stand. I use a single 32/36 weber to test run at first. That way I don't have to be concerned with FI problems or carb syncing. I can also use a cheap electronic "clicker" fuel pump. I also use a direct reading oil pressure guage.