Bluesport Retro, Advice needed for transverse diesel convertion Options

[jules2c]

I do not know if anyone has done this before it just seemed a sensible idea at the time. The car had all the usual disasters and a few novel ones made by the factory! This may offend purists but it had been rearly abused and I could not believe the crazy design of just about everything. It was a 74 2.0 4, it has been stripped of most parts and I have been slowly welding it back to a solid structure.
The doors have very good alignment and operate as I assume they should but the roof will not align at the rear being flush on the right side and sticking out about 4 to 5mm on the left. I straightened the left long which was about 4 to 5mm high in the middle this seemed to make no difference. The fiberglass roof I assume is accurate as I have not come across fiberglass warping I just dont know. If you have any ideas please let me know.
Has anyone mounted a rad in the back of the car using the engine deck as the outlet feeding from the floor? More metal abuse tomorrow and the the next etc etc.

[rick 918-S]

I do not know if anyone has done this before it just seemed a sensible idea at the time. The car had all the usual disasters and a few novel ones made by the factory! This may offend purists but it had been rearly abused and I could not believe the crazy design of just about everything. It was a 74 2.0 4, it has been stripped of most parts and I have been slowly welding it back to a solid structure.
The doors have very good alignment and operate as I assume they should but the roof will not align at the rear being flush on the right side and sticking out about 4 to 5mm on the left. I straightened the left long which was about 4 to 5mm high in the middle this seemed to make no difference. The fiberglass roof I assume is accurate as I have not come across fiberglass warping I just dont know. If you have any ideas please let me know.
Has anyone mounted a rad in the back of the car using the engine deck as the outlet feeding from the floor? More metal abuse tomorrow and the the next etc etc.

First things first! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

There have been many different conversions done here. There was a subaru conversion done where the builder placed the radiator just ahead of the engine. I saw this conversion. Although the work was quick and dirty the radiator cooled the engine just fine in that location.

Here's a link to the 914 Info section.

http://www.914world.com/specs/914info.php

There are chassis diamensions there that may help you fix your chassis issue. If you can post photos that will help us understand what your up against.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thisthreadisworthlesswithoutpics.gif)

[jules2c]

I do not know if anyone has done this before it just seemed a sensible idea at the time. The car had all the usual disasters and a few novel ones made by the factory! This may offend purists but it had been rearly abused and I could not believe the crazy design of just about everything. It was a 74 2.0 4, it has been stripped of most parts and I have been slowly welding it back to a solid structure.
The doors have very good alignment and operate as I assume they should but the roof will not align at the rear being flush on the right side and sticking out about 4 to 5mm on the left. I straightened the left long which was about 4 to 5mm high in the middle this seemed to make no difference. The fiberglass roof I assume is accurate as I have not come across fiberglass warping I just dont know. If you have any ideas please let me know.
Has anyone mounted a rad in the back of the car using the engine deck as the outlet feeding from the floor? More metal abuse tomorrow and the the next etc etc.

First things first! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

There have been many different conversions done here. There was a subaru conversion done where the builder placed the radiator just ahead of the engine. I saw this conversion. Although the work was quick and dirty the radiator cooled the engine just fine in that location.

Here's a link to the 914 Info section.

http://www.914world.com/specs/914info.php

There are chassis diamensions there that may help you fix your chassis issue. If you can post photos that will help us understand what your up against.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thisthreadisworthlesswithoutpics.gif)

[jules2c]

Thanks for information, now to try again to upload photos!
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1247.photobucket.com-14010-1327523751.1.jpg)(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1247.photobucket.com-14010-1327523751.2.jpg)(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1247.photobucket.com-14010-1327523751.3.jpg)(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1247.photobucket.com-14010-1327523751.4.jpg)(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1247.photobucket.com-14010-1327523752.5.jpg)
This is just the seat mounting, handbrake and heater tubes removed.

[ape914]

i think a engien grill mounted radiator is a great idea, you will probablky wnat to reverse the air flow, so the air moves from under the car (high pressure area) to out thru the grill (low pressure area), so mount fans as such, remember the factory air flow direction is reversed the tin seals the engine bay from the underside of the car, and the fan is sucking the air from the top down. however I dont think the air naturally want to travel that way.


for this you will need a short engine, or if a tall inline motr, mount two radiator, one on each side of the grill.

one more option space wise would be to ditch the stock enginelid / grill and make a raised up grill, maybe a couple inches. too add clearance for the radiator(s). A couple inches more taller grill shouldn't block the rear view very much.

I think this is new territory.


I recall the other guy that put the radiator near the cockpit fire wall had isses with air flow, didn't he have to make a scoop under the car to get the air flow needed, and that scoop tended to scoop up leaves and debries off the road? Thats what I recall where he left off, but maybe he solved it?

[dlo914]

i think a engien grill mounted radiator is a great idea, you will probablky wnat to reverse the air flow, so the air moves from under the car (high pressure area) to out thru the grill (low pressure area), so mount fans as such, remember the factory air flow direction is reversed the tin seals the engine bay from the underside of the car, and the fan is sucking the air from the top down. however I dont think the air naturally want to travel that way.


for this you will need a short engine, or if a tall inline motr, mount two radiator, one on each side of the grill.

one more option space wise would be to ditch the stock enginelid / grill and make a raised up grill, maybe a couple inches. too add clearance for the radiator(s). A couple inches more taller grill shouldn't block the rear view very much.

I think this is new territory.


I recall the other guy that put the radiator near the cockpit fire wall had isses with air flow, didn't he have to make a scoop under the car to get the air flow needed, and that scoop tended to scoop up leaves and debries off the road? Thats what I recall where he left off, but maybe he solved it?

TonyAKAVW was the one who had that setup, he eventually removed that setup and went with a front trunk setup. Here's a link to his build thread and his setup is on page 27: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...1579&st=520

[jules2c]

Thanks for information, it always helps to not reinvent the wheel.
A few more photos(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1247.photobucket.com-14010-1327589617.1.jpg)
This is just the mark 1 engine 1.7 turbo diesel. Pulleys are aluminum because the cush drive failed, never come across that before, then had to do the water pump one as well as the main pulley has slightly different diameters for belts don't you love manufacturers?
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1247.photobucket.com-14010-1327589620.2.jpg)
The original gear change goes wrong way so will have to fit the one that came with the engine, this should help by being in a convenient place to operate. The internal bits are removed to help with room for the hand brake and cables, this should also help by being in a convenient place to operate.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1247.photobucket.com-14010-1327589621.3.jpg)
The standard lets drill a hole through when engine deck lid destroys its mountings.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1247.photobucket.com-14010-1327589621.4.jpg)
The standard spray glue everywhere, revolting not the PO fault.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1247.photobucket.com-14010-1327589621.5.jpg)
A few minor finish issues to polish out.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1247.photobucket.com-14010-1327589622.6.jpg)

[majkos]

Wow!



You're good !
You got some skills, and..........








(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)


I always wanted to put a VW Passat Diesel 1.8 in the 914, gota get? 60++ miles a gallon? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[jules2c]

Thanks for advice, I did not know it sucked from above! I simply thought it tried to suck from the front top and bottom its nice to know it was even madder than I imagined. The idea is as you said to get the air from under the car to fill the area behind the rear windscreen. The radiators will be mounted very upright right in front of the engine so no deck height changes should be needed. The leaf issue should not be a problem as a concave type of grill behind the inlet will absorb a lot of rubbish before it reduces cooling, the rubbish rotting/falling off so maintenance free?

[rohar]

If you mount a VW engine transverse with the stock tranny and the output flanges in line with the axles, a LOT of the rear trunk will have to be removed if you maintain the 15 degree slant. If you stand it upright to 0 degrees, it'll move the weight forward and you won't have to relieve it of as much sheet metal, but you'll probably have to modify the oil pan or fabricate a new one from scratch as it'll be hanging pretty low. Either way, that leaves a whole bunch of space in front of the engine for cooling nonsense, but i'm just not sure how well it can be cooled there. Some have tried, to my knowledge none have succeeded.

Maybe think about sealing off the space between the oil pan and the firewall with custom tins and duct air in?

[geniusanthony]

I have no experience with that diesel, but have two related scenarios to offer. Since I assume a trans adapter to be necessary.

Whether you use a 901 type trans or the diesel VW, why not "clock" the engine to lay closer to flat? With the 901, you could lay the engine on its left side and dump the exhaust straight out the bottom... same thing for the VW trans.

Only consideration I see is the oil pan and pickup if the angle were too great..
Any splash oiling in that engine?
Do the dimensions work?

[jules2c]

Thanks for your thoughts, not sure about the VW turbo diesel as the turbo is behind it and a lot of cast iron but you have to use what is available.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1247.photobucket.com-14010-1327716552.1.jpg)
Cleaned up around the engine mountings to allow plasma cutter access and will remove the floor of boot at the same time but keep the support beam for the moment. The hinge mountings are shot but one may give me dimensions, the torsion rods out, a couple of pneumatic struts should stop it self destructing and has been done by others so just need to find thread.

[jcd914]

I have no experience with that diesel, but have two related scenarios to offer. Since I assume a trans adapter to be necessary.

Whether you use a 901 type trans or the diesel VW, why not "clock" the engine to lay closer to flat? With the 901, you could lay the engine on its left side and dump the exhaust straight out the bottom... same thing for the VW trans.

Only consideration I see is the oil pan and pickup if the angle were too great..
Any splash oiling in that engine?
Do the dimensions work?

At least for the early VW diesel engine a pan and oil pick up are available for a laid over engine. VW put a diesel engine in and early Vanagon (1981?) and laid the engine over almost flat.
There are some out there using these part to put VW Golf engines in the Vanagon.
2.0L in-line 4 in the Vanagon is a nice upgrade.

Jim

[geniusanthony]

That's good to know Jim. What is the engine code that is intending to go in... I ask because the VW 1.8T has been done by a few. So some similarities may exist. I would think a TDI engine to be close to that in era at least.

Great work all the same.

[jules2c]

Have thought of tilting the next engine forward as suggested with the installation of th smaller engine this should give some idea of space available. The TDI engines dimensions are on the web but they do not have the gearbox fitted so I am a bit in the dark about size. If you know otherwise please let me know?

[jonferns]

Check out the TDIclub.com forums, there is a Conversions/Swaps section. They can answer all your questions there. The TDI is a great choice for a conversion, IMO, lots of room for tuning and modding, while still turning great economy. Good luck

[rohar]

I have no experience with that diesel, but have two related scenarios to offer. Since I assume a trans adapter to be necessary.

Whether you use a 901 type trans or the diesel VW, why not "clock" the engine to lay closer to flat? With the 901, you could lay the engine on its left side and dump the exhaust straight out the bottom... same thing for the VW trans.

Only consideration I see is the oil pan and pickup if the angle were too great..
Any splash oiling in that engine?
Do the dimensions work?

At least for the early VW diesel engine a pan and oil pick up are available for a laid over engine. VW put a diesel engine in and early Vanagon (1981?) and laid the engine over almost flat.
There are some out there using these part to put VW Golf engines in the Vanagon.
2.0L in-line 4 in the Vanagon is a nice upgrade.

Jim

Just so we're clear here, he's looking at plating the VW diesel transverse w/ the VW transmission so no bell-housing adapter would be necessary.

Have thought of tilting the next engine forward as suggested with the installation of th smaller engine this should give some idea of space available. The TDI engines dimensions are on the web but they do not have the gearbox fitted so I am a bit in the dark about size. If you know otherwise please let me know?

It's got 100mm flanges so axles should be pretty straight forward if you're going 5 lug. If not, the early 020 transmissions had 95mm flanges and I think they can be swapped out. The dimensions should be similar to the 02J found on the transverse gasoline cars as they use the same axles/fit in the same chassis. One's gonna be in the back of my truck next weekend, I'll take some measurements.

[jules2c]

That is correct, the use of the entire engine gearbox unit from a VW front wheel drive. I will keep the 4 lug wheels as I want to keep the exterior appearance the same and have a budget of zero.
You can hardly complainn that people have not grasped the idea when I can't spell conversion correctly!

[paroxysm]

How about a b5 tdi passat mounted longitudinal, or use a vw fox 5 speed tranny mounted to a tdi.

[rohar]

Mounting a VW inline 4 (diesel or gas) longitudinally in a 914 is a PITA. No place for motor mounts on the driver side of the "front" of the engine.