Ignition switch wont connect..., When using the key. **Solved** Options

[Bob L.]

Hi again,

I need some help with the Ignition switch...

The old one stopped working before I bought the car and a bypass button was installed. I has worked fine.
position.

I finally got around to replacing the electrical switch portion of the system. The first funny thing I noticed is that the wires used for the bypass switch don't appear to be the ones that go to the terminals that connect when the switch is turned to the "start".



When I turn the switch terminals A&B connect but the wires used to bypass the switch seem to go to A&C.
Am I just following the wires wrong?
I did have to modify the switch to fit into the key mechanism by Filing off a tab and a bump off to allow the switch to fully seat into key mech.

The problem I'm having is the new switch doesn't work when its in the mechanism. only when I have it out by itself. I can turn the insides with a screwdriver and the terminals will show continuity. I think the "key mechanism" is not turning far enough to make the connection inside the switch. The same thing is happening with the old switch (it is cracked), Works outside the key mech, but not in it.
Anyone had this one before?
Thanks,
Bob

[76-914]

What year? Which replacement switch did you use. There are some POS's out there. IIRC, RacerChris had a go around with some recently. If you have a 75-76 it has own. I think 72,3,&4 are the same.

[Kirmizi]

Something was amiss if you had to file the switch in order for it to fit properly.
Did you have the key in and move it to engage the new switch when you installed it? Was it an OEM manufacturer switch or a cheapie?
Mike

[Bob L.]

It's a '73.
The switch probably came from Pelican. not positive. Is that a crappy one?

There was a tab much like the one indicated by arrow, at "A". It prevented the switch from going far enough in to engage with the key mechanism's rotating tab.

There was also a collar around the other side(arrows below show whats left) that prevented inserting the key mechanism into the steering column.
The mound that is "B" was taller. it prevented the key mechanism from sitting all the way into the steering column, the retaining clip would cock sideways when tightened. once it was flattened everything fit




someone suggested the key/tumblers may be too worn. The key is pretty worn.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Kirmizi]

Could be worn tumblers, but could also be from the "new" switch not fitting properly. Not uncommon, do a search for "ignition switch".
BTDT with a cheapie switch and eventually fixed the problem with a Meyle (?).
Mike

[aircooledtechguy]

I've run into similar problems on late model air-cooled VW beetles (which have a similar ignition switch/key/steering lock arrangement).

What I have found is that sometimes it's the piece that is between the key tumbler and the electrical switch. This little section that actually works the steering lock is basically 2 flat discs that have an off-set cam that works the steering lock. I've found that over time, they can actually twist slightly (probably brought on my someone forcing the key with pressure on the steering lock) and it now prohibits the electrical switch from turning enough to engage the correct tabs internally. The only solution I've found for cars with this problem, is to replace the entire steering/lock assembly since you can't get just the part that is worn.

When this has been the issue, the ignition key will only engage the "ON" position, not the "start" (though you can feel the spring tension that the start position has; it just won't engage the starter motor and there's no indication of load on the dash lights). If you remove just the electrical portion of the switch the engine fires right up using a screw driver = the switch is not being turned far enough = bad steering/lock assembly. I go and install a good used steering/lock assembly, and the cars start right up using the same key tumbler and electrical switch. . .

This may not be the problem you are experiencing, but it's one that I have run into here at my shop several times over the past couple years. . .

[Bob L.]

I've run into similar problems on late model air-cooled VW beetles (which have a similar ignition switch/key/steering lock arrangement).

What I have found is that sometimes it's the piece that is between the key tumbler and the electrical switch. This little section that actually works the steering lock is basically 2 flat discs that have an off-set cam that works the steering lock. I've found that over time, they can actually twist slightly (probably brought on my someone forcing the key with pressure on the steering lock) and it now prohibits the electrical switch from turning enough to engage the correct tabs internally. The only solution I've found for cars with this problem, is to replace the entire steering/lock assembly since you can't get just the part that is worn.

When this has been the issue, the ignition key will only engage the "ON" position, not the "start" (though you can feel the spring tension that the start position has; it just won't engage the starter motor and there's no indication of load on the dash lights). If you remove just the electrical portion of the switch the engine fires right up using a screw driver = the switch is not being turned far enough = bad steering/lock assembly. I go and install a good used steering/lock assembly, and the cars start right up using the same key tumbler and electrical switch. . .

This may not be the problem you are experiencing, but it's one that I have run into here at my shop several times over the past couple years. . .

Ding ding! Give that man a cigar!
I don't know what the "discs" are but the cam that interlocks with and rotates the switch was worn and twisted backwards. effectively reducing the amount of rotation that can be achieved with a full turn of the key.

The area in the oval is the contact/pushing surface of the shaft and it did look worn and a bit pushed backward.

I was able to compensate for this by trimming the backside of the locating tabs(one for the set screw and the other is just a little peg) allowing the switch to be clocked backwards. Effectively adding back the lost rotation due to wear/twist. I shimmed the other side to take up the slack. Sure it 's a bit of a hack job on the replacement switch but it works now.

I guess you could build up the area that was worn/pushed back to regain full rotation but I couldn't figure what would hold well to the metal and I don't weld yet, if that would even be appropriate.

Another option would be to twist the "cam" back to it's proper place but I was worried I would snap it off instead of bending it.

Thanks for your help.

[markb]

Or you could post a WTB in the classifieds, and one of us that has a ton of misc parts could send you one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Bob L.]

I've been buying stuff from "The World". I just struck a deal for a complete FI set up to bring my 1.7 back from the plight of it's single progressive. Fixing the little things I can for free allows me to afford the thing I can't fix myself. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Jmedeiros]

How did you get that out?? I have removed the steering wheel & removed the two screws that were holding the ignition switch in but I don't want to pull it and all wires out.

I've run into similar problems on late model air-cooled VW beetles (which have a similar ignition switch/key/steering lock arrangement).

What I have found is that sometimes it's the piece that is between the key tumbler and the electrical switch. This little section that actually works the steering lock is basically 2 flat discs that have an off-set cam that works the steering lock. I've found that over time, they can actually twist slightly (probably brought on my someone forcing the key with pressure on the steering lock) and it now prohibits the electrical switch from turning enough to engage the correct tabs internally. The only solution I've found for cars with this problem, is to replace the entire steering/lock assembly since you can't get just the part that is worn.

When this has been the issue, the ignition key will only engage the "ON" position, not the "start" (though you can feel the spring tension that the start position has; it just won't engage the starter motor and there's no indication of load on the dash lights). If you remove just the electrical portion of the switch the engine fires right up using a screw driver = the switch is not being turned far enough = bad steering/lock assembly. I go and install a good used steering/lock assembly, and the cars start right up using the same key tumbler and electrical switch. . .

This may not be the problem you are experiencing, but it's one that I have run into here at my shop several times over the past couple years. . .

Ding ding! Give that man a cigar!
I don't know what the "discs" are but the cam that interlocks with and rotates the switch was worn and twisted backwards. effectively reducing the amount of rotation that can be achieved with a full turn of the key.

The area in the oval is the contact/pushing surface of the shaft and it did look worn and a bit pushed backward.

I was able to compensate for this by trimming the backside of the locating tabs(one for the set screw and the other is just a little peg) allowing the switch to be clocked backwards. Effectively adding back the lost rotation due to wear/twist. I shimmed the other side to take up the slack. Sure it 's a bit of a hack job on the replacement switch but it works now.

I guess you could build up the area that was worn/pushed back to regain full rotation but I couldn't figure what would hold well to the metal and I don't weld yet, if that would even be appropriate.

Another option would be to twist the "cam" back to it's proper place but I was worried I would snap it off instead of bending it.

Thanks for your help.

[bandjoey]

Pelican parts has a pic tutorial on pulling the ign.

[Jmedeiros]

Thanks!!

Pelican parts has a pic tutorial on pulling the ign.

[Jmedeiros]

Glad I swapped out the ignition switch! Fires right up now!! Pelican's technical article is spot on and really easy to follow! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)