 Empi Bolt on Valve covers, What to torque the stud extensions too? |
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| rpmmaxxed |
 Feb 11 2012, 01:09 PM
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#1
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Member  Group: Members Posts: 387 Joined: 24-May 05 From: Oceanside, CA Member No.: 4,140 Region Association: Southern California  |
No instructions included with the kit. The only specs I can find online when installing these is on bug motors. And they are calling for either 16 or 18 ft lbs...
Anyone happen to know? Before these:  Can go onto this:  I've gotta find me specs*! Glad to be back on this site, and back in my go kart... |
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| TheCabinetmaker |
Feb 11 2012, 01:28 PM
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#2
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I drive my car everyday Group: Members Posts: 8,300 Joined: 8-May 03 From: Tulsa, Ok. Member No.: 666 |
No more than the rocker stand toque. I hear those are terrible for leaks.
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| wingnut86 |
Feb 11 2012, 01:34 PM
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#3
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...boola la boo boola boo... Group: Members Posts: 1,053 Joined: 22-April 10 From: South Carolina Member No.: 11,645 Region Association: South East States |
Search the threads here for bolt on aluminum valve covers, if not then do the same on The Pelican site.
you should also be able to find instructions at JBugs or other V-Dub sites as well. That looks like a race pair if I remember correctly. One breather hose from each cover is attached to each side of the breather container in the image. The center hose should dump into the original breather box tower cap where the adaptor is.. You can mount the box on the firewall below the spring steel closer rods that support the engine cover when it opens. These are unfortunately the type that require a gooey substance to reinforce the gaskets for leaks due to warpage... Stainless Steel are better if you have to go that route. You are missing some studs and standoffs as well. |
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| codices |
Feb 11 2012, 01:39 PM
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 95 Joined: 9-October 08 From: Morrison, Colorado Member No.: 9,626 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
Have had a pair on another engine. They would always leak around the bolt/stud holes. Tried "o" rings on the bottom side but to no avail. If anyone has an answer let us know.
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| wingnut86 |
Feb 11 2012, 01:47 PM
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#5
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...boola la boo boola boo... Group: Members Posts: 1,053 Joined: 22-April 10 From: South Carolina Member No.: 11,645 Region Association: South East States |
Advice:
Go with an original pair of steel units or the stainless steel ones without venting if not a requirement for smog tests in your locale. The originals are great, and a forum member here or on TheBird came up with a simple solution to make sure the gaskets stay engaged. This would require tack-welding additional strips of metal along the inside of the valve covers all the way around the circumferance, meeting up with the original metal tabs/protrusions that are "SUPPOSED" to hold the gaskets in place. Good Luck... |
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| 02loftsmoor |
Feb 11 2012, 03:32 PM
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#6
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 577 Joined: 26-June 11 From: Ft. Worth TX Member No.: 13,243 Region Association: Southwest Region 
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Soooo your saying that you need to stick with the OEM covers, less leakage (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
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| rpmmaxxed |
Feb 11 2012, 03:34 PM
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 387 Joined: 24-May 05 From: Oceanside, CA Member No.: 4,140 Region Association: Southern California |
Gonna find a way to avoid the oil leaks some seem to have. Cant return them now, after drilling,tapping, and putting fittings on them now...
Will post pics and update in the next few hours.. |
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| Als914 |
Feb 11 2012, 03:58 PM
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#8
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Lighting my way Group: Members Posts: 330 Joined: 1-January 06 From: Hemet,Ca. Member No.: 5,346 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(rpmmaxxed @ Feb 11 2012, 11:09 AM)  No instructions included with the kit. The only specs I can find online when installing these is on bug motors. And they are calling for either 16 or 18 ft lbs... Anyone happen to know? Before these: Can go onto this: I've gotta find me specs*! Glad to be back on this site, and back in my go kart... I have had my aluminum valve covers for fifteen years and mine have never leaked. Your local hardware store (IIRC, Home Depot) carries a metal washer with rubber on one side, find the correct fit, add a little silicone to the rubber side and bolt down. Sorry I don't know the torque spec. |
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| URY914 |
Feb 11 2012, 05:08 PM
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#9
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I built the lightest 914 in the history of mankind. Group: Members Posts: 120,614 Joined: 3-February 03 From: Jacksonville, FL Member No.: 222 Region Association: None |
They would look nice mounted on your wall.
You'll need to get the gasket surface milled to some degree to get the gasket to seal. Good luck. I gave up on mine an went back to the stock ones as most folks do. |
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| wingnut86 |
Feb 11 2012, 07:14 PM
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#10
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...boola la boo boola boo... Group: Members Posts: 1,053 Joined: 22-April 10 From: South Carolina Member No.: 11,645 Region Association: South East States |
Good point here...?
Al states he's run his for years, and I know the series of washer he's discussing. I think they are for washers and the tub connection for antivibration. Since you are working yours currently, can you research his solution to see? I believe his addition of silicone sealer keeps the rubber together as it breaks down, or at least that's a good reason he probably hasn't experienced any flakes in his sump screen. Al can you verify this? If you are a racer, you tend to dissasemble your ride every season or maybe multiple times if under heavy use, assuming the reason that the daily driver issues aren't seen as much. This is all conjecture, but many of us that grew up with type I, II's and III's saw similar issues unleas frequently rebuilding (which we did for fun and upgrade). We always ran into the issue with nicks of the cover surface as we cleaned and replaced gaskets over time. Maybe Len and Jake will weigh in along with The Cap'n, as we all cut out teeth on the little buggers. Note: if you work on the mechanics of your VW/Porsche yourself, you'll mostly minimize these issues with common sense and experimentation over time. Personally, I can't stand the damn leaks on my concrete so I tweak when I have an assembled block... |
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| Dave_Darling |
Feb 12 2012, 01:05 AM
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#11
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 14,986 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California
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The torque spec for the rocker stand nuts is either 9 or 10 lb-ft. Just barely more than finger-tight. I wouldn't go tighter than that on these things either.
I know the Cap'n has said many times that these are paperweights, and will pretty much always leak. IIRC, Jake isn't fond of them either. The stock covers, when actually flat, work well. Make sure the VW logo is upside down when the cover is installed; for some reason they seem to fit better that way. --DD |
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| ChrisFoley |
Feb 12 2012, 08:34 AM
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#12
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I am Tangerine Racing Group: Members Posts: 7,925 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Bolton, CT Member No.: 209 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(codices @ Feb 11 2012, 02:39 PM) Have had a pair on another engine. They would always leak around the bolt/stud holes. Tried "o" rings on the bottom side but to no avail. If anyone has an answer let us know. The rocker studs aren't perpendicular to the valve cover gasket surface on the heads, but the flats machined onto the aluminum valve covers are parallel with the VC gasket surface. I remachined the round flats so they were at the correct angle, I use Stat-o-seal (o-ringed) washers plus sealant on all the bolt/washer surfaces. I machined the VC gasket surface flat since as-cast they aren't flat enough IMO. My (not Empi) aluminum covers don't leak - only after taking those steps. |
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| URY914 |
Feb 12 2012, 08:40 AM
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#13
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I built the lightest 914 in the history of mankind. Group: Members Posts: 120,614 Joined: 3-February 03 From: Jacksonville, FL Member No.: 222 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Racer Chris @ Feb 12 2012, 07:34 AM) QUOTE(codices @ Feb 11 2012, 02:39 PM) Have had a pair on another engine. They would always leak around the bolt/stud holes. Tried "o" rings on the bottom side but to no avail. If anyone has an answer let us know. The rocker studs aren't perpendicular to the valve cover gasket surface on the heads, but the flats machined onto the aluminum valve covers are parallel with the VC gasket surface. I remachined the round flats so they were at the correct angle, I use Stat-o-seal (o-ringed) washers plus sealant on all the bolt/washer surfaces. I machined the VC gasket surface flat since as-cast they aren't flat enough IMO. My (not Empi) aluminum covers don't leak - only after taking those steps. Sounds simple enough..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) |
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| jmill |
Feb 12 2012, 10:56 AM
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#14
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Green Hornet Group: Members Posts: 2,449 Joined: 9-May 08 From: Racine, Wisconsin Member No.: 9,038 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
I gave up on mine also. I used the stock units with holes drilled in them for the vent tubes. IMHO the stock units are also easier to get on and off for valve adjustment anyway.
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| Als914 |
Feb 12 2012, 12:02 PM
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#15
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Lighting my way Group: Members Posts: 330 Joined: 1-January 06 From: Hemet,Ca. Member No.: 5,346 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(wingnut86 @ Feb 11 2012, 05:14 PM) Good point here...? Al states he's run his for years, and I know the series of washer he's discussing. I think they are for washers and the tub connection for antivibration. Since you are working yours currently, can you research his solution to see? I believe his addition of silicone sealer keeps the rubber together as it breaks down, or at least that's a good reason he probably hasn't experienced any flakes in his sump screen. Al can you verify this? If you are a racer, you tend to dissasemble your ride every season or maybe multiple times if under heavy use, assuming the reason that the daily driver issues aren't seen as much. This is all conjecture, but many of us that grew up with type I, II's and III's saw similar issues unleas frequently rebuilding (which we did for fun and upgrade). We always ran into the issue with nicks of the cover surface as we cleaned and replaced gaskets over time. Maybe Len and Jake will weigh in along with The Cap'n, as we all cut out teeth on the little buggers. Note: if you work on the mechanics of your VW/Porsche yourself, you'll mostly minimize these issues with common sense and experimentation over time. Personally, I can't stand the damn leaks on my concrete so I tweak when I have an assembled block... Mine are not the Empi covers and I use the stock cork gaskets. On the metal/rubber washers I use a very ,very thin layer of silicone and on the gasket side that mates to the sealing surface of each head I apply a very thin layer of silicone that I let dry to a tacky state and then mount the valve covers. This has worked for me flawlessly for years. |
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| 02loftsmoor |
Feb 12 2012, 04:11 PM
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#16
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 577 Joined: 26-June 11 From: Ft. Worth TX Member No.: 13,243 Region Association: Southwest Region
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you guys answered my question, stay with the stock valve covers (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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| IronHillRestorations |
Feb 12 2012, 07:34 PM
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#17
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I. I. R. C. Group: Members Posts: 6,719 Joined: 18-March 03 From: West TN Member No.: 439 Region Association: None
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The trouble I had is they had an interference problem with the upper engine tin and didn't mate to the gasket surface good. Interesting idea, but once you learn how to put the valve covers on, it's a "solution" with more problems.
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| Prospectfarms |
Feb 13 2012, 12:42 AM
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 495 Joined: 7-March 11 From: Louisville, KY Member No.: 12,801 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
I've used those empi covers for bigger than stock upright motors mainly because they came in a kit with an oil breather/reservoir like yours. Big type 1 blows oil without a way to control it.
Are valve cover breather's even helpful on type 4? It has crankcase ventilation. Cover was a PIA to make oil tight. They're usually not even flat out of the wrapper. You could probably sell it on the SAMBA. |
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| Jake Raby |
Feb 13 2012, 05:13 AM
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#19
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
You must like seeing oil on your garage floor. The only option for valve covers on my engines are OEM VW units.
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