914 in SCCA ITB, 1.7 FI Options

[Helmut Derra]

Anybody racing a 914 in SCCA ITB in recent history? I have a 1.7 L car and wonder if 90 hp is realistic using stock FI and a header?

[machina]

I ran my stock 1.7 in vintage class down here with SCCA .

That little motor gave its heart and never broke, even after many missed shifts and over revs.

I doubt 90hp is realistic. Even if it could be done, do you really want to put that kind of $$$ into a 1.7?

Just run what you got and have fun. I did that last season, now I'm re-powering. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

dr

[ChrisFoley]

I used to run in ITB & had a lot of fun. The car isn't competetive (legally) there, but when SCCA moves it to ITC it will be competetive. I just don't like the idea of racing with all those "throw-away" cars.
90hp+ is realistic, but it will take some $$$. Kit Carlson FI and a Super Header, along with all the legal mods will be the ticket.

[machina]

Kit Carlson FI and a Super Header, along with all the legal mods will be the ticket.

uh, kit carlson in IT?

That ain't kosher. Unless you disguise it as stock. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

dr

[ChrisFoley]

Kit Carlson FI and a Super Header, along with all the legal mods will be the ticket.

uh, kit carlson in IT?

That ain't kosher. Unless you disguise it as stock. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

dr

I haven't done a detailed reading in a while, but I believe any brain that fits inside the stock box is aok these days.

[lapuwali]

i.e., if we can't tell just by looking at it that it's illegal, it's legal...and our tech inspectors can't tell one processor from another, and can't be expected to know what the correct board should look like...

Can't say as I can blame the rulesmakers, but Megasquirt, et al, must be a huge thing in IT these days.

[smg914]

My first race car was a 914 1.8 SCCA ITB car. The previous owner was much more competitive in this car than I ever was. Mainly because he never used the brakes. I remember him telling me that he went into turn 1 at Sebring flat out without braking. I still don't have the balls to try that. I guess what I'm saying is that I believe it is possilbe to be competitive in ITB with a 914 but it would take an extremely agressive driver with the car set up perfectly for that type of driving. I know the word on the street about my old car was that it had a cheater engine of some sort. After I raced it for 3 or 4 years we took the engine apart to rebuid it and we found it to be bone stock right down to the cam and the factory pistons.

[Joe Ricard]

My early 1.7L D-jet was rated at 80 HP I don't see why it would be too difficult to get a few more out. I port matched the heads. flowing out of a 2.0 SSI / Bursch. took out the cylinder base shims and head gasket. Left the oil bath as some say it actually flows better. Goes like stink when you wind it up. just doesn't have much torque till over 3500 RPM. What kinda HP does it make????? don't know but I AX it in 2nd 5700 RPM some times I go to 3rd not often.

[ChrisFoley]

I just remembered one absolutely critical mod for IT racing.
You must install a 6:29 R&P to get good gearing, since other gearbox alterations are not allowed.
The HP isn't enough to reach red line in fifth even with the short final drive, but you will have better torque off corners.
Another thing, unless you want to do long enduros, a small fuel cell like my custom one is a big plus.
I think a K&N would be better than the oil bath air filter. I found a big motorcycle filter that I attached directly to the inlet boot, after cutting the boot and turning it for clearance.
I did pretty well against VW GTI's and never had a fully prepped engine.
One problem I never figured out was that the car was actually slower on Hoosier 205's than on 195/50 Yoko A008RS's. The parasitic drag on the straights was too much to overcome even with the increased cornering limits.

See the flames out the tailpipe in this pic from Pocono? The early FI had no decel valve and I always got a big bang when the engine dropped through the 3000rpm range.(IMG:http://www.tangerineracing.com/images/TangerinePics/Tdream1.jpg)

[GaroldShaffer]

I just don't like the idea of racing with all those "throw-away" cars.

So, is this where you started racing? I'm new to the AXing stuff and after working at Gingerman for the CenDiv first national event I'm hooked. I know I want to do some big track stuff, but I need MORE seat time before I make that jump. Is the IT class a good place to start. My plan next year is more AXing and some DE events. I'm also signed up for the Evolution driving school next summer.

Sorry for the thread hi-jack (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[ChrisFoley]

So, is this where you started racing?
Is the IT class a good place to start.

I did some PCA DE days with my Tangerine car back in the mid '80s before taking it off the road for rust repairs.
Then I got my racing license in an American Sedan Camaro and a Rabbit ITC car, then raced for 2 years in a rental GTI in ITB.
In '95 I started racing the 914 in ITB and ran there for 2 years, doing about 30 races, before rebuilding it as a Prod car. I also did quite a few autocrosses.
IT is a great way to start racing. It doesn't take a whole lot of money to prepare the car and you can do a lot of Regionals while learning how to service and maintain a race car.
My comment about "throw away" cars was referring to the number of cheap ITC cars that some guys don't seem to care whether they wreck or get physical with.

[don9146]

Kit Carlson FI and a Super Header, along with all the legal mods will be the ticket.

uh, kit carlson in IT?

That ain't kosher. Unless you disguise it as stock. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

dr

I haven't done a detailed reading in a while, but I believe any brain that fits inside the stock box is aok these days.

The rulebook states that Fuel injected cars may alter or replace the engine management computer, or ECU, provided that all modifications are done within the original OEM ECU housing.
The way I read that is "you can replace and modify the brains of your fuel injection system, but not anything else (i.e. lines, injectors, and sensors).
Does this make everything as clear as mud?

Later,
Don

[don9146]

I just remembered one absolutely critical mod for IT racing.
You must install a 6:29 R&P to get good gearing, since other gearbox alterations are not allowed.
The HP isn't enough to reach red line in fifth even with the short final drive, but you will have better torque off corners.
Another thing, unless you want to do long enduros, a small fuel cell like my custom one is a big plus.
I think a K&N would be better than the oil bath air filter. I found a big motorcycle filter that I attached directly to the inlet boot, after cutting the boot and turning it for clearance.
I did pretty well against VW GTI's and never had a fully prepped engine.
One problem I never figured out was that the car was actually slower on Hoosier 205's than on 195/50 Yoko A008RS's.  The parasitic drag on the straights was too much to overcome even with the increased cornering limits.

See the flames out the tailpipe in this pic from Pocono?  The early FI had no decel valve and I always got a big bang when the engine dropped through the 3000rpm range.

1. What car does the 6:29 R & P come out of and are they hard to find?
2. What is the big plus of the small fuel cell? Is the weight savings that significant? Or is it easier to move it to where you need it? Or somehting else?
Thanks and did you notice how I posted only 1 and 2 but asked 6 questions (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Later,
Don

[ChrisFoley]

1. What car does the 6:29 R & P come out of and are they hard to find?

I don't think it was standard in any car, so they are somewhat rare. Pretty sure I got mine from Carquip.

2. What is the big plus of the small fuel cell? Is the weight savings that significant? Or is it easier to move it to where you need it? Or somehting else?

My fuel cell shape means I can run it nearly dry on the track without so much as a hiccup. The only other options are 1) converting a stock tank, which still has the weight up too high for the most part, is much larger than necessary for sprint races, and sloshes a lot; 2) a rectangular fuel cell in the front trunk, which is also too large, sloshes, often requires 2 pumps or a full load of fuel, puts the weight too far forward so the balance of the car changes as the level drops, and no room for an oil cooler in the front trunk.
With the smaller fuel cell right where I want it I can put more ballast on the passenger floor and have a better balanced chassis for the entire race. The CG even improves as the fuel level drops.
Each of the advantages I created is small, but added together they are significant IMO. OTOH, I've never seen anyone else do it this way, so maybe I'm all f*cked up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[ChrisFoley]

Oh yeah, its also safer there than in the front trunk. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif)

[r_towle]

Show us a pic of the fuel cell!!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thisthreadisworthlesswithoutpics.gif)

[seanery]

look in trekkor's
"show me your race car pics" thread and there is a pic of chris'