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> oil cooler, your thoughts
brant
post Sep 16 2004, 08:48 AM
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QUOTE(trekkor @ Sep 15 2004, 10:01 PM)
Nobody's biting at the oil cooler/heater, eh?

I will look at this a little closer later.

Good posts thus far, thanks for that.

Still have a few more a/x's and may have a DE in Nov before I tear it all down.

KT

Trekkor,

I personally know 2 people in colorado with a cooler mounted in that location.

One is a 1.7/4 race car.
the other a 3.0/6 street car.

both have had good results.
Its not the optimum place.
I re-did my cooler 3 times on one car just to get the optimum exit...

I highly suggest that you stick to what is proven.
straight frontal air flow will give you the most efficiency and Paying A LOT of attention to the exit is VERY important.

neither of the guys I know are using the exit for heat.
I think this is very problematic. Exit flow is one of the main keys to efficiency, and having the exit air go through flapper boxes and twist and turns seems to be a definite set up for failure...

I would seriously recommend you learn from my mistakes and not have to re-do the set up 3 times like I did

brant
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Brando
post Sep 16 2004, 09:58 AM
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straight-shot, through the front/spare tire well and down is best (at an angle). lift factor wont come into account until you maybe break 150/160 mph...
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Trekkor
post Sep 16 2004, 06:36 PM
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Here's the Patrick louvered floor pan.

I know, doing it the way everyone does it is the way.

I just like to toss ideas at all of you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

One day I may come up with something good. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif)

KT


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East coaster
post Sep 17 2004, 09:06 AM
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I like the idea of the louvered exit area, but it apears the exit area is far less than the entry area. It really should be at least a 3rd larger than the entry area unless your counting on fans to give you all the flow. 2X entry = exit is really the shiznit for flow.
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Joe Ricard
post Sep 17 2004, 09:37 AM
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just sat here and read like all the comments. Hmm (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
So now here is my.914 cent worth. I notice that the car temp is cooler when Autocrossing than running down the freeway. Oil temp is higher head temp is lower.

I normally start car and and leave it running from when I pull onto grid till I complete all the runs.

On the freeway the car runs hotter head temps with higher oil pressure @75MPH 3400 RPM till the oil is warm. Once oil is really warm the oil pressure runs 40PSI and head temps drop 25 degrees or so.

BONE Stock 1.7L So I think to myself if I cool the oil will the car run hotter???
Been running 35 years like this maybe I should leave it alone. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) I do run Synthetic oil 20W-50.
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lagunero
post Sep 17 2004, 02:33 PM
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I agree with Eastcoaster. Joe Ricard, that is very interesting. I hope some of the big dogs can answer your question.
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ArtechnikA
post Sep 17 2004, 02:46 PM
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QUOTE(Joe Ricard @ Sep 17 2004, 07:37 AM)
Once oil is really warm the oil pressure runs 40PSI and head temps drop 25 degrees or so.

at what temperature does the cooling air thermostat open ?
does that only direct air away from the oil cooler, or does it affect headflow too ?
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machina
post Sep 17 2004, 02:54 PM
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QUOTE(Joe Ricard @ Sep 17 2004, 11:37 AM)
BONE Stock 1.7L So I think to myself if I cool the oil will the car run hotter???

I remember Jake saying something about stock configurations and camshafts make these motors run much hotter than they need to. I think the OEM cams are crap.

So maybe a better combination (cam, heads, etc) would run cooler head and oil temps.

dr
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McMark
post Sep 17 2004, 04:18 PM
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Correct, you could set your oil and head temps to almost any degrees if you knew enough about cam selection and didn't care about horsepower or fuel economy. My point is that head and oil temps are related to the overall cam/engine combination.
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machina
post Sep 17 2004, 04:55 PM
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QUOTE(markd@mac.com @ Sep 17 2004, 06:18 PM)
Correct, you could set your oil and head temps to almost any degrees if you knew enough about cam selection and didn't care about horsepower or fuel economy. My point is that head and oil temps are related to the overall cam/engine combination.

Right, but you can have good (low) head and oil temps and have great HP and torque. That is the goal in tuning a motor, efficiency.

dr
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eeyore
post Sep 17 2004, 05:15 PM
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Did some internet searching on radiator airflow design.

Here's a college student study to glean though
http://www.tfd.chalmers.se/~lelo/rvad/repo...ing-systems.pdf

The pic is from page 8. Don't know of diagram is to scale or correct. If so, the rad/cooler surface exceeds the inlet area. It is actually desirable to have a plenum-like situation that slows down the air in front of the rad/cooler. The outlet seems to be smaller than the inlet.

It is also interesting to see the optimum angle of incidence for a rad/cooler is best between 30-50 degrees.


Other info.
http://www.enjoythedrive.com/content/?id=8302


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ArtechnikA
post Sep 17 2004, 05:24 PM
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that's all covered in good detail in Tune To Win.
IMNSHO, anybody considering vehicle modification or race-prep should have all the Carroll Smith books.
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machina
post Sep 17 2004, 05:31 PM
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QUOTE(ArtechnikA @ Sep 17 2004, 07:24 PM)
IMNSHO, anybody considering vehicle modification or race-prep should have all the Carroll Smith books.

I agree,

I have the complete library of smith books and many others but I mostly use them to put under my butt so I can see over the dash better. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

dr
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Joe Ricard
post Sep 17 2004, 06:44 PM
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Well pretty sure the air flaps are wide open within the 1st few minutes of running. I'm talking 15-20 minutes down the freeway at speed. Running around town I never see this phenomenon.

Been kicking around the idea of gettig a oil temp gauge. then I'll as dangerous as the rest of you guys. As hard as I run this car I am always amazed at robustness of the stock motor. I imagine I won't have this motor in the car after Christmas as the 44IDF 2056 I want to build should be ready.
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Trekkor
post Sep 17 2004, 09:08 PM
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Copper oil lines in the rockers.
I thought somebody would say something about that.

I will...If thin copper strips were soldered on as heat sinks/cooling fins. Even better.

How would you like to have a ten foot long oil cooler? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

KT
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Aaron Cox
post Sep 17 2004, 09:14 PM
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yeah, finned copper oil lines (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)
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redshift
post Sep 17 2004, 09:23 PM
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Aaron, why don't you just shut up?

<---it's my avatar


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redshift
post Sep 17 2004, 09:31 PM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Now I have to change my avatar, it's got crap on it.

Ok, I cleaned up my act, I got a job, and now I am selling AmWay.

Thanks Aaron.


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Trekkor
post Sep 17 2004, 09:40 PM
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QUOTE(acox914 @ Sep 17 2004, 08:14 PM)
yeah, finned copper oil lines (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)


I'm thinking out loud here.
If the lines are in there any way, why not make them work for you. Little air scoop and everything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif)


other question was, can you cool the oil too much?

KT
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Downunderman
post Sep 18 2004, 01:53 AM
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I have been working on the front cooler setup for the last few weeks while the engine is out being serviced and the clutch replaced. Cooler lays flat in the front boot floor with a fan on the top of it inside a carbon fibre box that I moulded up


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