Tranny in neutral despite shifter, Car currently broke down on road Options

[86motoman]

Taking the 914 out for the first time to town. About 2 miles from my house and go for fourth. It's not thier...I wiggle a little more...still not there. I go back to third...nothing...second...first....stopped. I tried reverse, got it. Backed up to a wide place on the road and tried for first again...nothing...went back to reverse...nothing. Car is currently still sitting on the road. I tried to manually go back and turn the tranny shifter piece. It looked to me like it was moving around and the shifter (bushings etc.) is still operating.

'72 Tail shifter 1.7

Is there anyway I can fix it on the road?

[URY914]

Is the clutch cable broken?

[davep]

I'm betting you lost the cone screw in the end of the linkage. If you are lucky, it is in the plastic cover, and needs to be reinstalled. It is a 4 or 5mm allen key. It has a plastic lock button that fails after it has been used a few times. Get a new screw.

Edit: sorry, I missed the tailshifter part of the story. The only one I ever had felt like a bowl of jello. Glad you were able to figure it out.

This post has been edited by davep: Sep 15 2004, 03:34 PM

[Aaron Cox]

I'm betting you lost the cone screw in the end of the linkage. If you are lucky, it is in the plastic cover, and needs to be reinstalled. It is a 4 or 5mm allen key. It has a plastic lock button that fails after it has been used a few times. Get a new screw.

same thing happened to me. i rolled mie halfway on a curb, manually set it in 2nd gear and limped it home (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[86motoman]

The clutch feels okay...that thought crossed my mind...would the clutch feel different?


I am trying to figure where a cone screw and plastic cover would be at the end of the linkage? Do you mean inside the tranny?

[914ghost]

Is there a cone screw on the tailshift setup?
I just did every bushing in my car and didn't find one. The connection from the front shift rod to the short / middle rod is rigid- a clamp, so there's no shift coupler.
Then there's the ball socket at the bulkhead and the long rod that goes to the tranny.
No set screw unless it's at the front underneath the shifter (like on a 911).
In a tailshifter I think you can still get gears if any of the bushings goes bad, except the front.
If the cup disintegrates up under the shifter AND you have sloppy bushings I'd guess you could lose it. Side of the road SUCKS! Get it in 2nd or 3rd and go home- tell us what you find.
-Bob O

[86motoman]

I tried to manually move the tranny end of the shift linkage by banging and twisting it...I wonder if the problem is inside the tranny?


Edit: Manually moving it into gear at the tranny is not allowing me to get it in gear.

[Ferg]

The cone screw is just aft the firewall at the linkage connection, inside the big rubber boot, if you have it. This just happened on our last mountain drive i bet that's it.
Ferg.

[rhodyguy]

roll pin up inside the inspection plate at the rear of the trans. haynes, p.86, fig 5.21, part #11. when it starts failing it can bend in a manner that allows you to engage reverse but no forward gears(btdt). it is a 5x24double rolled pin. or the connection point in the tunnel has come loose. when you pull the plate, a bunch of gear lube will pour out. be prepared. you will need a new gasket too.

kevin

[Joe Bob]

Might have slipped the spline adjustment as well.

Best to call a hook and get it home...open everything up on the linkage and look for loose bolts. Working on the side of the road sucks big ones....you never bring the right tool.

If ya don't have AAA....you should. I use BOTH my wife's tows and mine every year....great benefit. Saves having to get a ride home if the car ever needs to be taken to the wrench.

[86motoman]

I am going to load the jack and tools up in the truck and see what I can find...I'll keep you all posted. Thanks

[aircooledboy]

Nope, no cone screws in tail shifters. There are bushings and balls though (huh huh huh, he said balls). Sounds to me like a bushing crumbled, or a ball came off. There is a big pyramid shaped bolt that anchors the front part of the rear shifter bar too. Get under the car and grab the shifter bar and try to move it around. If it is really floppy, it could be that the "pyramid bolt" (I don't know what the hell else to call it) came out of the fire wall. The way you desribe the problem, it could easily be that or a bushing failure. I had a bushing fail with my sideshifter this weekend, and the shifting went from difficult to non-functional in about 5 trips through the gears.

[d7n7master]

In the last four years I have had to replace the plastic bushing @ the firewall twice for the same reason. Do yourself a favor: replace all shift bushings & set screws and add a weltmeister reverse lock-out. Re-set your linkage so that second gear is straight forward. Tighten the adjustor. Drive it. Adj. again if req.
Big difference. Almost confidence inspiring!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[lapuwali]

There are no cone or set screws on the tail-shift linkage.

Under the plate in the center tunnel right at the firewall is the join between the front and center parts of the linkage. This may have come adrift. If so, the shifter will feel very floppy. If you can still feel some heft and hear clunking when moving the shifter, this isn't it.

The center bit of the linkage is L-shaped and connects to the aft section of the linkage using a ball-shaped bushing. This center piece is normally covered by the oval shaped cover at the firewall. The aft bar then leads all the way back to the knife and fork arrangement at the rear of the gearbox, which may itself be covered by another cover (count yourself lucky if so, as these things are NLA and frequently missing).

If you grab the aft bar and move it by hand (rotation matching side-to-side motion at the lever, fore/aft matching fore/aft motion at the left. All motions are reversed, so moving the bar aft is the same as pushing the lever forward), see if you can engage a gear. Twisting it anti-clockwise (facing forward) and pushing it forward should engage first.

If everything is intact from the lever to the knife-and-fork, the problem is inside the gearbox. There's more linkage in there, which will be revealed if the tail cover is removed.

If you can seem to engage a gear, but the car still doesn't go anywhere, I'd bet a CV joint has expired. Grab each halfshaft and see if there's any radial play at either end. Shouldn't be any at all. If these seem OK, then next most likely candidate is the clutch disk has sheared the center section.

If the external linkage is intact, tow it to safety. You'll not be fixing anything else at the side of the road.

[86motoman]

Hey guys thanks for all the input.

I found the problem. It is the roll pin (??) just inside the tranny. There is a little plate at the end on the bottom of the tranny. I pulled that and found a broken pin. When the kinfe and fork moved the shaft it wouldn't move the tranny parts because this pin was broke. I was able to get it to stay in gear by using vice grips. Though it tooke about four times jacking it up and then trying a gear and then setting it down. The last time I decided to forget jacking it up...and somehow got it to stay in first. Drove it home in first.

I was able to catch most of the oil that came out. Luckily I was on a farm road with little traffic.

I don't have any covers on any of the linkage. I did just change all (6) bushings, I should have told you guys that. It still seems there is to much slop in it. It seems like the ball joints behind the firewall should be tighter? I see there is a hole (right by the ball) for something on the shifter shaft going to the tranny. This hole is empy? Maybe I need a brace or something?

I need to go walk a couple of miles to go get the truck.

- Does anybody know where or what kind of pin I can use in this? Is it just any old roll pin?

- Also do I need to take apart the tail end of the tranny or can I just put it in a certain gear to line the pin up where I can get it through?

...time for my walk...

[lapuwali]

I can't visualise the hole you're talking about. There's no brace near the front. The center bit is supported by the firewall bushing, and the leading edge of the aft bar is supported by the ball on the pin poking aft from the firewall.

On slop, there will be some even with new bushings. It's never going to be Honda quality unless you re-engineered the thing, there are just too many joints in the system. Once you replace that roll pin (sorry, can't help you there), you can feel for play in the linkage to isolate it. The aft bar often wears where it goes through the rearmost bushing, and it's been recommended to braze up the bar and file it back to snug that up. The same thing can be done to the knife-and-fork. Even after you get all of the play out of the external linkage, there's still the internal linkage to deal with. If there's no play at all, you end up with a very stiffly-operating linkage.

At the risk of sounding like I'm spouting some Zen mumbo-jumbo, the tail-shift linkage really is just a feel thing. Once you have it nicely adjusted (esp. the side-to-side motion, with the linkage adjusted relative to the lockout plate properly), you find yourself shifting it very well with sufficient practice. With roughly 3000 miles on my new-to-me (and recently rebushed) tailshifter, I miss maybe 1-in-1000 shifts now, on rare occasions hitting 4th instead of 2nd when going down from 5th. I never hit reverse instead of 2nd (anymore). I never hit third instead of 1st (anymore), and I can't remember the last time I got 5th instead of 3rd going up.

Sure, it could feel nicer, but a 914 could be quieter and have better ride quality, too. If I'd wanted a Boxster, I would have bought one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[86motoman]

the leading edge of the aft bar is supported by the ball on the pin poking aft from the firewall.




Sure, it could feel nicer, but a 914 could be quieter and have better ride quality, too.  If I'd wanted a Boxster, I would have bought one.   (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I was cussing at the car this morning...But even when I pulled the truck up to the broken down 914 on the side of the road I had to say...man that's a good looking car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) And there is so much satisfaction in getting in this little 914 that you have made road worthy....well almost. hehe


This aft shaft hanging on the ball is where I am talking about. Here is a pic: See the hole just this side of where the shaft is hanging on the ball: The paint on the shaft is kind of marred right beside it.

[86motoman]

Here is a pic where the roll pin was that broke on me. This is inside the tranny...the shaft that fits inside this tranny piece is the shaft the knife and fork moves. I got the old one out and believe it I can just punch a new one in. The roll pin is about 7/8" long.

sorry bout the bad pic:

[sj914]

I replaced that same rollpin out of my old car before. You can try the dealer or go to your nearest hardware store and get one, although it won't be a double roll pin.

[URY914]

I thought that was the problem (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Paul