values up, recent excellence valuation Options

[7391420]

This came out last month I think but I was just thinking about it,

-Ive seen a bunch of nice cars out east which people are asking 8-10k or more for, now that's just asking price, but its pretty cool to see the values going up for these cars....not that any of us will ever sell them! but still, excellence recently re-valued in its september or october issue, I forget, and prices were up 10-15% across the board for 04.

[McMark]

I'm actually thinking seriously about the investment potential in the next few years. I am very confident that they will be taken more seriously and rise in value even more. All the more reason to do every repair the right way, instead of the cheap way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Root_Werks]

Also to keep the cars as stock looking as possible. I think as time goes on, the cars that "Would have been" or "Were" something the factory made will command a much higher price than Frankinstein conversions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) At least that is my 2 cents. Not that I don't love seeing v8 914's or turbo Sub motors in them, just that even Ricks 918-s I bet would get a higher dollar than even a 500hp 350 chev 914-8. Maybe not now, but in a few years, I would think so.

Does that make sense? It is the reason I have only ever done 914-6 conversions where the 914 looks as factory as possible on my budget. All my 914's look like something Porsche had already or would have rolled off the line. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I donnaknow, wadda you guys think? Should we all be driving "Beach Boys" 914's? <_<

[MattR]

I think there's something to be said for keeping a car all stock, but that just isnt for me. I could have kept a 2.0l -4 in my car, but i wanted to bore it out, and i could have gone with a 4 lug suspension, but i wanted 5. On cars like this I dont feel bad about changing something the factory had. Now if I were to have an unmolested 55 TBird things would be different. But these cars are meant to be driven and utilized. They are NOT trailer queens.

As far as value goes, I could care less. Im going to have my car for a while, and if in 4 years I sell it for a loss of a few grand, I'll know it will have depreciated much less then a newer car of similar value. And I dont have to drive some POS tin can... I can drive a porsche (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) .

[7391420]

I could go either way on the origional or not front,

-if you build a car that you like but few other are likely to like than sure, its going to be worth less than an origional car

-but, if you like the car better because of modifying it and as a result keep it for a long time and enjoy it, than sure, you should mod it. The problem I see (maybe 914's excluded) is that many people who seriously modify their cars end up selling them! while it seems like the people that keep them more or less origional end up keeping them for a long time

[yellowFV]

I've noticed 914 values rising steadily over the past three years... I had been picking up clean cars for as low as $ 3,000 .... not anymore !

The dramatic rise in values of cars at the top end of the feeding chain (911s, american muscle cars, vettes, Z28 s etc) was bound to force people down the food chain to cars like the 914..

The cars that are rising are the southwest, california corrosion free original condition cars...southeast cars too.

I read part of one of those AutoBook soft cover books on "Auto Restoration" and the first chapter discussed what types of car generally had collector appeal.

They mention Special Marques.... Porsche is a definite pedigree type marque.

They talk about open top cars/convertibles.... 914 targa top

they say sports cars and two seaters... bingo again !

Special Model Features.... 4 wheel independent suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, fuel injection, mid engine.... all in 1970-76.

Fun to drive cars... need I say more.

Low Production cars.... Porsche 914 had high production numbers but most have rusted away or were not saved not deemed collectible in the critical 15 yo period where many ended up in the hands of people who did not maintain them unlike most 911s that manitained value throughout there life and have not ended up getting "Kid Abused" with mods.. Hey that's not my term but the auto restoration hobby term for what happens when young kids get they're hands on these car....

( I plead guilty to personally "messing up" 2 1967 firebird convertibles and a 74 Z Green 914 when i was in HS/College). Driving lights suspension mods, stereo systems, color change paint jobs, custom wheels I love it .... whatever you enjoy is my view.

Bottom line is that these cars are gonna end up being revalued now that people are discovering them.... The whole boom in all stuff 70s has helped alot too.

I talked to a transport driver from Thomas Sunday Transport and he was asking me "what was up with these cars ?" since he was trailering alot more of them back and forth around the country....A sure sign that interest is increasing...

I'm just gonna hold on to my 73 2.0 and my 74 & 75 1.8 liter cars.

rob

[bob91403]

Also to keep the cars as stock looking as possible. I think as time goes on, the cars that "Would have been" or "Were" something the factory made will command a much higher price than Frankinstein conversions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) At least that is my 2 cents. Not that I don't love seeing v8 914's or turbo Sub motors in them, just that even Ricks 918-s I bet would get a higher dollar than even a 500hp 350 chev 914-8. Maybe not now, but in a few years, I would think so.

Does that make sense? It is the reason I have only ever done 914-6 conversions where the 914 looks as factory as possible on my budget. All my 914's look like something Porsche had already or would have rolled off the line. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I donnaknow, wadda you guys think? Should we all be driving "Beach Boys" 914's? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Oh hell no! We should all be driving cars that look like the 24 hours of Le Mans poster. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[silver six]

Speaking of the Excellence price valuations. It's interesting and a little sad to note that the members of this board often undervalue the 914 and the 914-6. This has always struck me as a little weird considering that we all have an interest in maintaining and increasing (if possible) the value of the 914. After all, almost all of us own one or more examples. If the 914 is going to be the next classic Porsche, in the vein of the 356, then we ought to start valuing our cars more than we have.

I admit I have been guilty in the past of undervaluing the 914 too. I remember a few months ago when an eBay 914-6 came up for bid. It was a nice car but the owner was asking for some $20,000. That seemed way too high to me. Many of us heckled the car--like we often do to the eBay Porsches. We wondered if the speedometer was original and were quick to point out any little indication of rust visable in the photos. I thought the owner would never get his asking price and many others on the board agreed with me. But soon thereafter the car was bid up to $21,000 or so and I had to eat crow.

So I guess the Excellence price valuations should not come as that much of a shock. I even have an official Porsche Club of America Valuation form set to me by Joe Hartman the Chairman of Porsche Club of America that was sent to be back in 2003 that confirms the Excellence valuation numbers. Any member can request this data from the PCA.

According to the PCA (and remember this was last year), the "average price for 8-month period between 6 and 14-months prior to date" for 914-6 was $20,810. And that was the average. The upper price range for cars sold in this time period according to the PCA was $24,680. That number, $24,680, represended the upper 10% of 914-6 sold. Now, these were asking prices that the PCA was tracking so actual sales prices were about 5% to 10% lower, but still, these are impressive numbers that we should keep in mind.

I suppose the moral to the story is to remember, just because a lot of us on this board can buy 914s cheaply and know how to fix them ourselves, inexpensively, does not mean that everyone out there can do the same. In other words the 914 is not really the "Peoples Porsche" anymore. To many people out there, the 914 and the 914-6 is a really special car worth paying for. I have to agree.

The 914 is beginning to be recognized as a classic Porsche with better race potential than most of the older 911s out there. The members of this club should recognize value of their own cars and price them accordingly.

Douglas

[anthony]

Those PCA numbers are totally flawed. Asking prices mean nothing. I know of two cases where owners have advertised their 914-6es for over $20K in Panorama. Both of these cars are still for sale over 2 years later. Neither IMO is worth over $12k - both are tired and need some kind of restoration.

914-6es seem very fairly valued compared to the 914-4 and 911s.

People say 914 prices are going up but I'm not sure if that is 100% true. They may be going up a little. I think part of what we are seeing is the fact that we can now easily track listings and sales (at least on ebay). Not that many years ago it was much more difficult to buy a car nationally and track sales prices.

About 10 years ago my uncle sold his mint 70K mile 74 2.0L for $10K. Similar cars are still selling for about the same amount of money - maybe a little more. When you factor in inflation there's been very little rise at all in prices. Maybe the price my uncle got for his car 10 years ago was exceptional.

I think 914s will continue to go up at about 5% per year. I don't think values will shoot through the roof.

[Mueller]

I love the "inflated" prices that some of you are calling them in Excellance....

I showed that article to my wife and made the comment that I only paid about $1000 for my car so the money to fix it up is well worth it.....okay, so I might have "lied" a little with regards to how much money I've really spent on it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Kargeek]

[QUOTE]Speaking of the Excellence price valuations. It's interesting and a little sad to note that the members of this board often undervalue the 914 and the 914-6. This has always struck me as a little weird considering that we all have an interest in maintaining and increasing (if possible) the value of the 914. After all, almost all of us own one or more examples. If the 914 is going to be the next classic Porsche, in the vein of the 356, then we ought to start valuing our cars more than we have.

Silver Six, I think you nailed it with regard to what I see with comments on this board. So, you pour thousands of dollars into restoring your 914, you understand just how rare rust free cars are getting to be, the price of parts etc. and say that good cars are not worth the money they command. The rag Autoweek noted in on week's auction highlight, that these cars are increasing in value. So, I guess we'll hang on and see what happens...I have owned my car for over 20 yeras and lately I see values really going up for good cars. DH

[EdwardBlume]

Yeah.... good insight folks. I've priced my "extra" 914 accordingly and its sitting in front yard. HA HA.

I'm a good sport about it though. There's a reason and a path for everything.

But then again, in a couple months, an awesome competitive autocross car will likely be stripped and parted including the straight clean 73 2.0 chassis.

[jr91472]

I think Douglas nailed it. Prices will only go up if people change the way they view 914s. Ironic that this community (914) has a lot of power and influence on this perception yet we are our own worse enemy (forest for trees maybe).

[RON S.]

Our teeners are definately rising in value with each passing year.Although not as fast as we would like.
The redo on my 6r has been a long drawn out affair,cause I am looking down the road about 10 years to what it's value will be then.
I've minimize my capital investment in the car by 1.)doing all the work possible all by myself.I.E.welding,wiring,plumbing,etc.
2.)Buy good used parts wherever possible.I scan classifieds,and online auctions daily.And I mean daily.I have just about fully optioned out my 6r,over the years,by buying good used speed equipment from guys with bankrupt race car projects.
3.)Be patient,and just keep working on it.
That being said,IMHO,I've fallen into the thinking that the value of a good 914 is liken to that of the streetrod crowd.
Keep it looking very much like the factory would do if they did a custom model.But,load it up with every goodie they didn't.
When it comes time to sell,the goodies will heighten the interest,and add value.Just don't go out and spend retail on all the goodies cause you'll never see a return on the investment.
Just my 2cw,
Ron

[anthony]

Prices will only go up if people change the way they view 914s. Ironic that this community (914) has a lot of power and influence on this perception yet we are our own worse enemy (forest for trees maybe).

Give me a break. So if we thought more highly of our cars they would go up in value? Next we are going to have to start a 12 step group for those that don't value their 914 highly enough.

The market has said repeatedly that nice 914s are highly prized. Mint original sixes have sold for up to $25K, highly modified sixes have sold for over $30K, mint fours have sold for over $10K. As expected everything else falls short because of condition or modifications that lower value.

There's room for everybody in the 914 market. Some people are in to mint condition original cars, some people are into dropping $30K into their car and restoring it over 10 years, others value a $6-9K really nice turn-key driver, and then there's the type that thinks $6-9K is too much for any 914 and buys a $2000 beater and then proceeds to put $200/month into the car for the next 5 years and never ends up with as nice a car as that $9,000 car he balked at. Live and learn.

More often than not we see owners who value their car too much. As with any other collectible car condition is the most important factor and unfortunately more often than not 914s have condition defects. Many are as a result of the car's design and the era in which it was built and others are from DAPOs. If people valued their cars more they wouldn't be parking them outside and driving them in the rain. The unfortunately thing is that a 914 rolling chassis isn't worth enough to restore so they frequently get cut up. That will change over time (a long time) as the number of cars dwindles and the value shoots up. At some point it will be worth it to spend $25K and restore a 4 cylinder car.

[Rusty]

So if we thought more highly of our cars they would go up in value? Next we are going to have to start a 12 step group for those that don't value their 914 highly enough.

that might have been a little harsh.

I used to say that I'd drive a 914, even if it wasn't badged a Porsche, and you could buy them on any street corner for a few bucks. They're fun.

As far as "market" values go? That only matters to me in two instances: First, if I'm looking to sell. Second, if I'm looking to recover from an accident (i.e. Insurance Company).

Otherwise, let them stay inexpensive. When the value of the car rises, all costs associated with it (insurance premiums, parts, services) are going to rise in cost as well.

JMO,
Rusty (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)

[bob174]

If you want to own an investment, buy a Ferrari. I bought my 914 to drive. I intend to keep it till I die & don't care if I recapture the money that I've put into it.

Sure would like a Ferrari, too.

[davidcalvin]

My 914 has no insignia on it at all. Nowhere on it does it say "Porsche".. Most young folk dont even know what it is or they think its a miyata or something.

Dont make no difference to me. Its still cool.

Though.. I did buy some porsche letters for my grill in silver. Love those things.

David

[Root_Werks]

About the only looks I care about that I get in my 914 are the ones from 911/944 owners when they here the sound of a six behind a 914 chassis. Other than that, I don't pay attention.

I do believe the 914 is sllllllowly raising in value. Not so much due to the car, rather the availability of the car. It has been stated here before, lots of the 914's have rusted away by uncaring owners. There was a time when you could pick up a decent 2.0 914 for $3000. With that price, it didn't take long before FI systems were removed in place of carbs, bailing wire to hold up rusted out battery trays, duct tape heater hoses and RTV seals took over our little cars. I can't tell you how many times I see a 914 with a decent paint job come into my shop only to find a riveted piece of steel covering up a massive rust hole underneath.

That is what will help the value of our cars, the deminishing population of them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[bob91403]

Yeah, now we can all say our odometers are original miles, and add 10K to the selling price. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) It's sick when somebody gets 17K for a collection of mismatched parts and 914True can't get 10K for a truly magnificent vehicle.