Where do I buy these diet pills for my car? Options

[moggy]

As some of you may know I rally a 914 over here in the UK. Mainly against Ford Escorts. Now I always knew that I was down 50bhp to the Escorts but I always thought I was lighter. At the previous rally my car, along with all other competitors, were weighed. My car came in 1010kg, with a full tank of fuel, driver and co-drivr were not in th car. The Escorts were all about the same.

So..... how do some of you guys get so light?

Here's what I've already done to save weight:

Lexan windows, side and back
F/glass boot and bonnet
All grill engine lid
Removed heat shield above exhaust
Stripped out interior including all sound deadening and tar
Late doors but with the crash bar cut out.

Here's what is fighting against the weight savings:

Skid plates front and rear
Front oil cooler and oil lines to it.
Roll cage
Engmann long kit
CFR rear suspension mount reinforcement kit

So.... alot of you guys have the additional weight of the above e.g. rollcage, rear suspension reinforcements etc. How do you get the car below 1000kg? what am I missing???

[mepstein]

I don't think you can go a whole lot lower than what you have. At least not without BIG $. You said the escorts all weigh about the same. What do they weigh? Can you go faster by improving the handling, braking, ect? Better tires, trans with different gearing, limited slip, lighter wheels? Pro driving school? New engine from Jake?

[moggy]

You said the escorts all weigh about the same. What do they weigh?

Same as me, 1000kg-1100kg

[Rand]

So, your weight is the same, but you are down 50HP?
And you are running Raby?
And they are running water cooling?
Hmmm.

Raby's engines are the best. But sounds like more power to displacement is needed. And while water adds weight, the cooling efficiency more than makes up for it.


I'm thinking Moggy needs a kick ass engine. What shall it be?

[moggy]

I don't think you can go a whole lot lower than what you have. At least not without BIG $. You said the escorts all weigh about the same. What do they weigh? Can you go faster by improving the handling, braking, ect? Better tires, trans with different gearing, limited slip, lighter wheels? Pro driving school? New engine from Jake?

Raby engine - check
Trans with gearing designed to engine - check
LSD - check
Lighter wheels - check
Pro-driving school - check (in fact they said that there's no way I can drive the car any faster than I am and the reason why I'm running a few seconds slower per mile is all due to the power I'm losing to the big Escorts)

Before anyone suggests....

Metal bumpers are a must due to the little bumps and scrapes (tried f/g and lasted less than a day)
Battery is standard and already ordered a dry-cell, lightweight version but that should only save me 5-6kgs

[SirAndy]

I don't think you can go a whole lot lower than what you have. At least not without BIG $.

Dunno about that. My car weights in below 2000 Amurican pounds (with gas but without driver) and it's still street-legal and has a cage.

2000 lb = 907.184 kg

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Rand]

Reinforcing for dirt rally has to add weight, no? Seems a bit of a different animal to me.

I heard power differences and same weights as competitors. I think it's going to take more power to be competitive. An old air-cooled engine, even with the latest developments, isn't in the same league. As much as I love these air cooled engines, I just don't think they can compete with the modern racers.

[moggy]

Reinforcing for dirt rally has to add weight, no? Seems a bit of a different animal to me.

I heard power differences and same weights as competitors. I think it's going to take more power to be competitive.

Believe me Rand, more power is in the pipeline (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Just want to make sure I'm not missing free horsepower by shedding some weight from somewhere I've overlooked.

[moggy]

I don't think you can go a whole lot lower than what you have. At least not without BIG $.

Dunno about that. My car weights in below 2000 Amurican pounds (with gas but without driver) and it's still street-legal and has a cage.

2000 lb = 907.184 kg

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

So, what have you got (or not, as the case maybe) that I haven't?

I can't believe that the skid plates (front and back), inner long reinforcement kit and rear suspension mount reinforcement kit all add up to 100kg.... or maybe they do (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[Rand]

I can't wait to see what you do. I just can't imagine you shedding much weight and still keeping her strong enough when you consider what those competitors have been doing. I'm amazed you are at the same weight.

We are rooting for you big time!!!!!!!!!

[moggy]

I can't wait to see what you do. I just can't imagine you shedding much weight and still keeping her strong enough when you consider what those competitors have been doing. I'm amazed you are at the same weight.

We are rooting for you big time!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Rand. The next round of the British Historic Championship is in a few days time, let's hope I keep it on the dirt and out of the ditches :-)

[SirAndy]

So, what have you got (or not, as the case maybe) that I haven't?

Good question.

The Light:
- Started with an early tub (70)
- Stripped all the sound proofing tar
- FG flares and bumpers and rockers
- CF dash
- No backpad
- No carpet
- Early doors
- GT engine lid
- Light wheels and brake calipers

The Heavy:
- Rollcage
- Oil lines & tank and front mounted cooler
- /6 engine


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[mepstein]

I don't think you can go a whole lot lower than what you have. At least not without BIG $.

Dunno about that. My car weights in below 2000 Amurican pounds (with gas but without driver) and it's still street-legal and has a cage.

2000 lb = 907.184 kg

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

That is a pretty amazing weight for a 3.6 six with a cage in a street car.

[Randal]

Here is what I did:

The base weight of my car is 1682 with the cage and 21/2 gallons of gas. Now that much gas wouldn't be good for a rally, but works great for an autox, hill climb or a 5 minute enduro. I have a 5 gallon tank, which saved a bunch of weight.

I have a complete cage setup, front to back so that adds at least 100lbs.

You ought to consider doing the roof thing that Bill Charron did. He used CF and glued the front and back together. Lost a bunch of weight and made the car super stiff.

I used both a CF trunk and hood.

Cut everything out of the trunk floor.

Stripped out all the caulking in the rear

I'm running the same Chris Foley reinforced trailing arms as you, except I have bearings everywhere.

No rear bar as IMHO 914's don't need one.

Running cookie cutters which are only 15lbs each.

Running a light weight battery, i.e., about 12 lbs.

Cut everything out of the doors.

Cut out the headlight sheet metal and lost the headlight motors, etc., but guessing you need those for night rally.

Using Kirkey seat (light) and only running one, but you'll need two.

No windshield, windows or rear targa window. Can you use the plastic windows in rally?

Not running a engine cover.

Fiberglass bumpers and flares all around

My motor is a Raby configuration, but running fuel injection - puts out 185hp / 185 ft lbs (6K) at the rear wheels. You would like this motor!

Oh I run a big oil cooler up front and SS braided lines back to the external oil pump.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[J P Stein]

1720 +/-20........with a 6. front cooler, & cage. A similar 4 should be 100+ lighter.

If you want to get serious about this race car stuff you have to be willing to give
the niceties.
Sit down and figure what is required by your rules. If it ain't REQUIRED, shit can it.
No torsion bars (or their brackets) for the lids, The lid springs up front, all that air ducting, motor, dash, wiring, switches. instruments. GUTTED doors....half inch perimeter on the inside sheet metal (figure out some kinda slide mechanism to raise & lower). 12 lb battery.

Go over the car with a fine toothed comb.....& be ruthless.

With added another 100lbs (or less) I could have been street legal.

[Randal]

1720 +/-20........with a 6. front cooler, & cage. A similar 4 should be 100+ lighter.

If you want to get serious about this race car stuff you have to be willing to give
the niceties.
Sit down and figure what is required by your rules. If it ain't REQUIRED, shit can it.
No torsion bars (or their brackets) for the lids, The lid springs up front, all that air ducting, motor, dash, wiring, switches. instruments. GUTTED doors....half inch perimeter on the inside sheet metal (figure out some kinda slide mechanism to raise & lower). 12 lb battery.

Go over the car with a fine toothed comb.....& be ruthless.

With added another 100lbs (or less) I could have been street legal.

Hey JP... come on down to Cascade Lakes this weekend and burn up some fuel and tires with me... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif)

[grantsfo]

Do you have pictures of the car? What kind of class restrictions do you have?

Focus on rotating weight first. Lighter flywheel and clutch, lighter brake rotors, lighter wheels ( there are options such as Jongblode that will get you to 10 lbs a wheel. Even tire choice is critical.

Big savings in going to CF hoods, bumpers, bumpers are critical piece to change. Lose valances, change to cf or fiberglass rockerpanels.

Lose cooling tins around motor, header choice is critical, yes cut the muffler heat shield out, choice of motor mounts can impact weight, engine compartment lid can go away or be replaced with lighter material atta minimum pin the engine lid and lose heavy metal spring rods, lightweight exhuast system,

Pull all tar off floors, remove back panel, remove underside of dash, pull all metal from dash, lose all fan motors and ducting, don't forget to lose all heater elements from motor into the car

Lightweight shift rod, convert to lightweight coilover setup both front and back,

Lose charcoal canister by fuel tank, go to fuel cell, do you need headlights? Consider removing motors and making lights manual if you can do without lights remove them.
Rear window to plexiglass.

Gut doors or even go to door skins, lose parking brake system, lightweight battery is a must, remove heavy stock battery tray if it's still there and locate battery lower and towards front of car.

Remember to try to keep weight balance towards fron of car. 914s are already too rear weight biased

[Chris Pincetich]

go to fiberglass door skins and kevlar sheet for skid-plate
what top?
The OEM fiberglass top is pretty light, but a carbon or fiberglass skin will be lighter up top where it is important
Clean out the 10kg of dirt trapped behind your rocker panels! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[brant]

It does seem a little heavy

I run all metal rockers, hoods, fenders, all of the trunk floors intact, etc and can beat that weight with a -6 installed

you can shave 10lbs from a stock top with elbow grease and only the cost of a few dzus fasteners.... another 50+ from stock doors by gutting the frame etc...

I took a metal car (only fiberglass bumpers) to 1826 wet. It has a windshield, and almost 5 gallons of oil in it. I guestimate that I could take 220-230lbs from my car if I cut everything and went with all glass and a 4 banger.

take pictues for us
I do believe the early chassis are 100 to 200lbs lighter

[moggy]

Thanks guys, this is a really useful discussion for me.

I need to take some more detailed photos for you to pour over but this is what I have at the moment:

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i31.photobucket.com-3285-1339155782.1.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i31.photobucket.com-3285-1339155783.2.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i31.photobucket.com-3285-1339155783.3.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i31.photobucket.com-3285-1339155783.4.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i31.photobucket.com-3285-1339155783.5.jpg)

Rocker panels are metal as f/g couldn't cope with the stones getting thrown at them. They only lasted one rally at a time. No dirt underneath them.

I can't use kevlar skid plates due to regulations. However I think they are too thick so there's an opportunity here for shaving some weight. Also, I'm thinking a lighter, smaller version for tarmac events.

Even though I've cut the crash bar (or as much of it as I could get to with the grinder) I still think the late model doors are heavier. Maybe some more I can shave out of this area.

In general, your cars definetly seem lighter.

I also forgot to mention, added weight:

Front ARB

Plumbed in fire extinguisher system.

Hand held fire extinguisher