Instructions for putting Gotti wheels together, Don't use the rubber gasket Options

[Randal]

Went to Roger Kraus this morning to pick up my Avon rear tires (10.5 x 23.0 x 15). When the tires were mounted to my Gotti wheels they leaked, even though I had carefully put them together, using new gaskets provided by Alpine. I even used silicon seal on both sides of the new gaskets, but they still leaked.

So what Roger does is to carefully clean both sides of the barrels to be put together, then puts a bead of silicon seal on the inside (of the bolts) and the outside. After the wheels are together, without the gasket, tighten in a star pattern and then torque to specification, again folllowing a star pattern. Lastely run a bead of silicon seal in between the two barrels and smooth all the way around with your finger so that the seal goes all the way between the two barrels. Doing this with the wheel on the car is probably the easiest way, but you could also roll the wheel across the floor to accomplish the same objective, i.e., a nice smooth bead.

Anyway had my tires dismount and I will go through the above process.

BTW the Avon tires are going to work just fine (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif) Although the cross width (section) of the mounted tire is 12", so still might have to cut the new 11" flares and install a small lip. We'll see.

[URY914]

What did the tires cost you? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

I'm running Hooiers of the same size.

[Randal]

What did the tires cost you? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

I'm running Hooiers of the same size.

Expensive. About $440 per tire including stems, mounting and balancing and CA tax.

But I have to say these tires are going to be fun.

Nothing like anything I have ever seen/felt before, but we will see once I get them out at the Marina.

[jsayre914]

let me be the first. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Randal]

OK OK

I put one Avon on top of the 4 Canti's, so you can see the size difference.

The compound test, press your thumb on the Canti's (about 5 lbs worth) and you can still move your thumb over the tire. Do the same thing with the Avons and you are stuck. Oh boy!

Will be running 8.7 x 21.5 x 15 up front. Want a narrower tire than the Canti's so it will get into it's sweet hot spot, from a grip point of view, faster. Also the shorter tire will drop the front by an inch or so.

These tires are closely tired to my weight balance ratio, so cornering potential is going to go up. It's all good!

[grantsfo]

Rogers guys are only people who I let mount my 3 piece wheels in the past. But even had leaks occasional when he set me up. I swore off 3 piece wheels due to leaks. I have no patience for that kind of stuff as an amatuer ax and track day guy. I have yet to wreck a single piece wheel so the repair benefits were not there either.

What do the Avons look like mounted? They change size on the wheels. Usually shrink.

Will be interesting to see how this works. I liked the canti set up as you could switch out tires etc. however I think you have ultimate setup with the Avoms if the car turns. Will be interesting to see what happens.

[Randal]

Rogers guys are only people who I let mount my 3 piece wheels in the past. But even had leaks occasional when he set me up. I swore off 3 piece wheels due to leaks. I have no patience for that kind of stuff as an amatuer ax and track day guy. I have yet to wreck a single piece wheel so the repair benefits were not there either.

What do the Avons look like mounted? They change size on the wheels. Usually shrink.

Will be interesting to see how this works. I liked the canti set up as you could switch out tires etc. however I think you have ultimate setup with the Avoms if the car turns. Will be interesting to see what happens.

How they look mounted? About the same as unmounted - big cross section, i.e., 12" so have to modify flares.

Fronts won't be an issue as they are nararrower than canti's.

My current suspension settings are pretty close to what Avon specifies. Probably will run that way until I get some temperatures that dictate otherwise.

It would be nice to be able to switch between Avon's and canti's, for the various events I run, but might have to make front height adjustment, as the Avon fronts are 21.5's.

[grantsfo]

Rogers guys are only people who I let mount my 3 piece wheels in the past. But even had leaks occasional when he set me up. I swore off 3 piece wheels due to leaks. I have no patience for that kind of stuff as an amatuer ax and track day guy. I have yet to wreck a single piece wheel so the repair benefits were not there either.

What do the Avons look like mounted? They change size on the wheels. Usually shrink.

Will be interesting to see how this works. I liked the canti set up as you could switch out tires etc. however I think you have ultimate setup with the Avoms if the car turns. Will be interesting to see what happens.

How they look mounted? About the same as unmounted - big cross section, i.e., 12" so have to modify flares.

Fronts won't be an issue as they are nararrower than canti's.

My current suspension settings are pretty close to what Avon specifies. Probably will run that way until I get some temperatures that dictate otherwise.

It would be nice to be able to switch between Avon's and canti's, for the various events I run, but might have to make front height adjustment, as the Avon fronts are 21.5's.

Ok Randal I say this in good humour. Avon specifies 914 suspension specs? Lol! How did they account for your suspension bending and flexing? Camber and toe gain or loss with said flex? 914 suspension is more of an art than a science in my opinion. Avon is used to setting specs for real race car suspensions that have predictable camber and toe attributes.

Curious what are you planning to run? I found Avons wanting a little more negative camber than Cantis did on the Boxster. If didn't I got ring of death! You don't want that with $400 plus tires.

This post has been edited by grantsfo: Aug 13 2012, 07:01 PM

[Randal]

Well here is an after picture, prior to having the tires mounted.

Here's hoping!

[Randal]

Mounted, balanced and not leaking. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

10.5x23.0x15

Gotti 11" rims

[Randal]

The socket head cap screws from McMaster Carr seem to be able to torque to 13.5 ft lbs and not fail.

The button head cap screws I got from McMaster Carr broke when I tried to torque them down. Thought they might work as that is what Alpine sells, but obviously the Alpine (Gotti's) are much stronger button head screws. The screw, washer and lock nut are about a $1.50 from Alpine, including shipping.

[Randal]

Rogers guys are only people who I let mount my 3 piece wheels in the past. But even had leaks occasional when he set me up. I swore off 3 piece wheels due to leaks. I have no patience for that kind of stuff as an amatuer ax and track day guy. I have yet to wreck a single piece wheel so the repair benefits were not there either.

What do the Avons look like mounted? They change size on the wheels. Usually shrink.

Will be interesting to see how this works. I liked the canti set up as you could switch out tires etc. however I think you have ultimate setup with the Avoms if the car turns. Will be interesting to see what happens.

How they look mounted? About the same as unmounted - big cross section, i.e., 12" so have to modify flares.

Fronts won't be an issue as they are nararrower than canti's.

My current suspension settings are pretty close to what Avon specifies. Probably will run that way until I get some temperatures that dictate otherwise.

It would be nice to be able to switch between Avon's and canti's, for the various events I run, but might have to make front height adjustment, as the Avon fronts are 21.5's.

Ok Randal I say this in good humour. Avon specifies 914 suspension specs? Lol! How did they account for your suspension bending and flexing? Camber and toe gain or loss with said flex? 914 suspension is more of an art than a science in my opinion. Avon is used to setting specs for real race car suspensions that have predictable camber and toe attributes.

Curious what are you planning to run? I found Avons wanting a little more negative camber than Cantis did on the Boxster. If didn't I got ring of death! You don't want that with $400 plus tires.

Think my suspension bends a lot less than most 914's, otherwise the tire temperatures would't be so consistent.

Ha, but maybe my wheel flex is so consistently wrong and the tires just heat up to the same temperature just flopping back and forth. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[grantsfo]

Rogers guys are only people who I let mount my 3 piece wheels in the past. But even had leaks occasional when he set me up. I swore off 3 piece wheels due to leaks. I have no patience for that kind of stuff as an amatuer ax and track day guy. I have yet to wreck a single piece wheel so the repair benefits were not there either.

What do the Avons look like mounted? They change size on the wheels. Usually shrink.

Will be interesting to see how this works. I liked the canti set up as you could switch out tires etc. however I think you have ultimate setup with the Avoms if the car turns. Will be interesting to see what happens.

How they look mounted? About the same as unmounted - big cross section, i.e., 12" so have to modify flares.

Fronts won't be an issue as they are nararrower than canti's.

My current suspension settings are pretty close to what Avon specifies. Probably will run that way until I get some temperatures that dictate otherwise.

It would be nice to be able to switch between Avon's and canti's, for the various events I run, but might have to make front height adjustment, as the Avon fronts are 21.5's.

Ok Randal I say this in good humour. Avon specifies 914 suspension specs? Lol! How did they account for your suspension bending and flexing? Camber and toe gain or loss with said flex? 914 suspension is more of an art than a science in my opinion. Avon is used to setting specs for real race car suspensions that have predictable camber and toe attributes.

Curious what are you planning to run? I found Avons wanting a little more negative camber than Cantis did on the Boxster. If didn't I got ring of death! You don't want that with $400 plus tires.

Think my suspension bends a lot less than most 914's, otherwise the tire temperatures would be so consistent.

Ha, but maybe my wheel flex is so consistently wrong and the tires just heat up to the same temperature just flopping back and forth. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Maybe no flex with crappy cantis on 8 in wheels. I got consistent temps on my cantis too, but bigger tires moved around a lot more. I wouldn't bet on 11 with fat avons not flexing things. I went back to Cantis after running big slicks on 10.5 inch wheels. Major flexi action. If you aren't significantly reinforced get ready for some work.

[Randal]

Rogers guys are only people who I let mount my 3 piece wheels in the past. But even had leaks occasional when he set me up. I swore off 3 piece wheels due to leaks. I have no patience for that kind of stuff as an amatuer ax and track day guy. I have yet to wreck a single piece wheel so the repair benefits were not there either.

What do the Avons look like mounted? They change size on the wheels. Usually shrink.

Will be interesting to see how this works. I liked the canti set up as you could switch out tires etc. however I think you have ultimate setup with the Avoms if the car turns. Will be interesting to see what happens.

How they look mounted? About the same as unmounted - big cross section, i.e., 12" so have to modify flares.

Fronts won't be an issue as they are nararrower than canti's.

My current suspension settings are pretty close to what Avon specifies. Probably will run that way until I get some temperatures that dictate otherwise.

It would be nice to be able to switch between Avon's and canti's, for the various events I run, but might have to make front height adjustment, as the Avon fronts are 21.5's.

Ok Randal I say this in good humour. Avon specifies 914 suspension specs? Lol! How did they account for your suspension bending and flexing? Camber and toe gain or loss with said flex? 914 suspension is more of an art than a science in my opinion. Avon is used to setting specs for real race car suspensions that have predictable camber and toe attributes.

Curious what are you planning to run? I found Avons wanting a little more negative camber than Cantis did on the Boxster. If didn't I got ring of death! You don't want that with $400 plus tires.

Think my suspension bends a lot less than most 914's, otherwise the tire temperatures would be so consistent.

Ha, but maybe my wheel flex is so consistently wrong and the tires just heat up to the same temperature just flopping back and forth. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Maybe no flex with crappy cantis on 8 in wheels. I got consistent temps on my cantis too, but bigger tires moved around a lot more. I wouldn't bet on 11 with fat avons not flexing things. I went back to Cantis after running big slicks on 10.5 inch wheels. Major flexi action. If you aren't significantly reinforced get ready for some work.

Tire flex in front should be less given that sidewalls are substantially shorter than canti. The back tire will have more flex, hence it's set up with additional clearance between tire and body. The trailing arms are Chris Foley's along with custom attachment.

Of course the only way to know if it's going to work is to run it. Looking foward to seeing tire temperatures.