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> Kit Carlson EMS in stock TIV?, How good will it work wit a stock engine
howardchen327
post Oct 25 2004, 06:30 PM
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I did some research on the Kit Carlson EMS. So far it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif). But I have one question: approx how much performance boost on a "totaly" (except a custom cold air intake) stock 2.0 D-jet I am look'n at? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

I know is it kind of meaningless to install the kit on a stock engine, but as the budget concern (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif), the kit is is the only affortable engine upgrade for me right now.

I'm planing to save some$$$ for one of Jake's massive IVs (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)

Any suggestion will be appriciated:)
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ChrisFoley
post Oct 25 2004, 07:12 PM
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QUOTE(howardchen327 @ Oct 25 2004, 08:30 PM)
I did some research on the Kit Carlson EMS. So far it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif). But I have one question: approx how much performance boost on a "totaly" (except a custom cold air intake) stock 2.0 D-jet I am look'n at? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

I know is it kind of meaningless to install the kit on a stock engine, but as the budget concern (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif), the kit is is the only affortable engine upgrade for me right now.

I'm planing to save some$$$ for one of Jake's massive IVs (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)

Any suggestion will be appriciated:)

If your d-jet is already set up properly you will gain almost nothing by switching to the KC EMS. However, if you also switch the exhaust to a Tangerine Super Header you will pick up gobs of mid-range torque and a bunch of top end as well. Actually you will get all that with the d-jet and my exhaust.
The only advantage of the KC EMS on a stock engine is easy tunability/optimization; something you don't have with the d-jet.
If you have to have the stock type H/Es then there are no power upgrades short of headwork and a cam.
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Allan
post Oct 25 2004, 07:17 PM
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QUOTE(Racer Chris @ Oct 25 2004, 05:12 PM)
If your d-jet is already set up properly you will gain almost nothing by switching to the KC EMS. However, if you also switch the exhaust to a Tangerine Super Header you will pick up gobs of mid-range torque and a bunch of top end as well. Actually you will get all that with the d-jet and my exhaust.
The only advantage of the KC EMS on a stock engine is easy tunability/optimization; something you don't have with the d-jet.
If you have to have the stock type H/Es then there are no power upgrades short of headwork and a cam.

Tell me more please!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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d914
post Oct 25 2004, 07:23 PM
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do we have a balpark on $$$$$$ yet and or time frame.
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914forme
post Oct 25 2004, 07:33 PM
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depends on what you are looking for?

He is making two kits for us, one rplaces the stock EFI, and keeps a stock type ignition.

The other will also have coil packs - Yeah Dave! Bring it on! This is the one that I am waiting to spend my green on. It will be somewhere in the $1000+ range, so the battle is KitCarlson or SDS in my book. I like the SDS better than the Megasquirt - I have three MS units here and they work well, but the SDS has a very easy to use interface that makes the others pale in comparision. Don't get me wrong I have PC around, but I don't like having to drag one around wiht me to keep my EFI programable. It is bad enough on my OBDII Jettta, let alone in my 914. But hey I do it every now and again. Currently I am running good old D-jet, because it works, and my auto-x class would not favorable with PEFI systems, with my other wise un modified engine. When the D-jet dies, I will box it up, and replace it with something more modern, bump the engine up a bit also, and have some fun.

Take care, Stephen
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Jake Raby
post Oct 25 2004, 07:45 PM
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We are still testing Dave's systems and having good results.
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d914
post Oct 25 2004, 07:47 PM
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will it come turn key, I'm currently running carbs and a little cam. will be going header and would like to go with the Kit c setup for a little more reliability around town. Right now pulling the gas tank and re doing all hoses. Dirty dirty dirty....
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McMark
post Oct 25 2004, 07:51 PM
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I'll let you know in about a week. Just got the wiring harness modified and installed. Got new spark plug wires. Still need to get a piece from Dave and get the brain talking to the Palm handheld.


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Aaron Cox
post Oct 25 2004, 07:59 PM
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QUOTE(markd@mac.com @ Oct 25 2004, 06:51 PM)
I'll let you know in about a week. Just got the wiring harness modified and installed. Got new spark plug wires. Still need to get a piece from Dave and get the brain talking to the Palm handheld.

that pic makes my head huuuuurt. ever think to zoom out? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol2.gif)
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Jake Raby
post Oct 25 2004, 08:08 PM
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I plan on selling complete replacement systems if someone wants them, or just the Electronics.

I will have 3-4 kits, two of which will be specifically for the 914.
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ChrisFoley
post Oct 25 2004, 08:31 PM
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QUOTE(Headrage @ Oct 25 2004, 09:17 PM)
Tell me more please!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Allan,
My exhaust is the ONLY bolt on upgrade that will get you nearly a 10% increase in torque and 7% increase in peak power on an otherwise stock 2 liter d-jet engine with stock exhaust. The D-jet actually likes my header due to an improved vacuum signature on the intake side of the engine. Additionally, it will keep up with all the head/cam/displacement upgrades you decide to do down the road. It is the single most effective performance add-on for a stock class autocrosser.
Most 914 owners are too cheap to find this out for themselves. :finger2: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
Other headers will give almost as much peak hp increase but not the midrange torque.
BTW, the Bursch is the about worst thing you can add from a performance standpoint.
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ChrisFoley
post Oct 25 2004, 08:32 PM
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QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Oct 25 2004, 10:08 PM)
I plan on selling complete replacement systems if someone wants them, or just the Electronics.

I will have 3-4 kits, two of which will be specifically for the 914.

WHEN?
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Jake Raby
post Oct 25 2004, 09:26 PM
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as soon as Dave gets the units back from the production facility we will be getting the kits together..

I just talked to Dave and he verified that he will NOT be offering a system that uses the stock dizzy, all will have the direct fire system with coil packs as well...
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Hi_Fi_Guy
post Oct 25 2004, 10:23 PM
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QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Oct 25 2004, 06:08 PM)
I plan on selling complete replacement systems if someone wants them, or just the Electronics.

I will have 3-4 kits, two of which will be specifically for the 914.

Jake,

Thanks for the heads up. I am certainly interested in switching the 2270 over to electronic ignition & fuel injection. Would solve the few remaining issues I have with my 914... smog test & cold starting/running.
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914werke
post Oct 26 2004, 11:33 AM
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Not to Hijack the thread but ..Chris how about offering a ver of your header w/HEAT!? Possible?
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Jake Raby
post Oct 26 2004, 11:46 AM
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he already does!
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fiid
post Oct 26 2004, 11:57 AM
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Any electronic ignition and injection system ought to be perfect for just about any engine - since you can always jack it into a laptop to tune it.

A fully functioning D-jet/Dizzy is a pretty good setup in terms of performance; going to an aftermarket system won't get you much in the way of extra HP. It will also marginally improve your emissions and fuel economy, and you will gain the ability to diagnose FI problems by jacking a laptop in.

All of the above is also true of the Megasquirt, and other systems around, although a stock megasquirt does not at this time support ignition (although that can be achieved in a couple of different ways.
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914werke
post Oct 26 2004, 12:41 PM
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Wow. your right Jake. Sorry Chris I hadnt chked your link in a while.
Though to be honest I did Choke at see the prices. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
But as the saying goes: Speed cost money, How fast do you wanna go? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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Jake Raby
post Oct 26 2004, 12:43 PM
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I disagree..

Yes, any engine may "work ok" with carbs or FI, but it will not be optimized unless specifically built for either application!

A good case is my 912E. I built the engine for carbs only and ran it for 59K miles that way. When we installed the FI the tuning procedure took longer than normal and my idle is not at a premium due to lack of vacuum signal due to a cam ground on a 105 degree center keeping the plenum scavenged drastically. The engine runs okay, but could run and idle better with a combo made for FI.

Sure it will work, but it won't make as much power nor will it tune as easily. So, why do it half assed?

There is nothing that pisses me off more than generic things that are "universal"... One size fits all don't cut it around here.
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howardchen327
post Oct 26 2004, 01:49 PM
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Wow a lot of comments & suggestions! Thax guys! u guys r awsome (IMG:style_emoticons/default/monkeydance.gif)

So there is not much performance gain if I switch to KC EMS...but will the kit be easier to tune up and maintain compare to the stock FI? With KC EMS do I have to mess around with point (this thing makes me sick (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) )...I love my tenner very much, but don't know much about cars (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
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