OT: Airline Crash Report, This just doesn't make any sense Options

[Elliot_Cannon]

I suppose I should know that, my dad owns one.
I never liked flying much though, except in simulator games like Falcon 3.0.
I feel safer on the racetrack than I do anywhere near an airport.

I think you're right. I haven't flown a Bonanza in about 25 years.
Cheers, Elliot

[Joe Bob]

I haven't WATCHED Bonanza in years.....

[Series9]

Hey Elliot,

My uncle is an MD-11 guy with UPS. Dave Archer. Know him?

I'm a Lear 35 guy myself, but tried to stick with funny pictures for this thread.

[Elliot_Cannon]

Hey Elliot,

My uncle is an MD-11 guy with UPS. Dave Archer. Know him?

I'm a Lear 35 guy myself, but tried to stick with funny pictures for this thread.

I have only been in the MD11 for a short while. I may know him but my memory for names and faces is dismal. I'll look him up. Does he drive a P car?
Cheers, Elliot

[Series9]

Does he drive a P car?


Hahahahahahahahahahahahah. No, he thinks I'm silly. And, although we are both pilots (he was my hero when I was a kid), today we share nothing but blood in common.

He basically set up the MD11 program at UPS and I thought it would be cool if you said hi.

[bob91403]

American Airlines is the only one using these planes to move passengers. Airbus is used more for freight. Airbus says they told AA about the sensitivity of their rudder controls. AA says they didn't. It was the co-pilot who panicked, screwed up, and over corrected. Airbus asked AA to re-train their pilots in this regard. I have no doubt, that pilot error was the cause. I'm also sure that AA is a bottom line company. Safety is not as important as profits to them. I doubt if the aircraft was properly maintained. Does Airbus need to improve their design? Probably. Did the pilot screw up? Definitely, he is, after all is said and done, responsible. Is AA at fault? I have no doubt, but it's tough to prove. They're looking for a scapegoat. It's easier to blame a dead guy. It's tough to sue a dead guy. It gives these companies with the deep pockets some degree of deniability in regards to being responsible, or negligent. FAA is just a government tool. They're not interested in causing these companies to go bankrupt.

[J P Stein]

From what I've read....thus far, a synopsis:

PIO....pilot induced oscillation. Simple, no? Not.

The oscillations lasted 6.5 seconds and ripped off the verticle stab.....not just the rudder, the whole effin' works.

In slow mo. He kicked the rudder to correct a roll (wake turblence). When it bit it was too much bite....kicked it the other way....too much bite again..kicked it again....you get the picture. The speed of the aircraft was within the parameters where control inputs should have not have caused structural failure.....I fergit the term for that. If you've ever seen vids of PIO due to overly sensetive controls you would realize that designers strive to avoid this at all costs. Kicking a rudder pedal at relativly low speeds should not kill 250 people.

Why kick the rudder?....apparently cause that's how he was trained.....and nobody told him not to do this. AA says Airbus never warned them about this. Airbus says they did.....AA says it was buried in a bunch of other stuff with no emphasis on it.

AA buys Boeing. They got Airbus from a take over of another airline. TWA?

This is Airbus' first crash in the USofA.
They're gonna learn about American lawyers....it's gonna be a rude shock.

Boeing has had airplanes in the ground all over the world, but the verticle stabs are in the holes. Many have composite stabs also. The 7E7 will be mostly composite....wings, fuselage, yada.....

A fine mess, eh?

[bob91403]

JP, you don't use rudder to correct roll, you use ailerons. Rudder is used to correct yaw. There is nothing slow about take off speeds. They're generally done under FULL power. A lot more stress during acceleration than at full crusing speed.

[J P Stein]

According to the black box, he did ailerons first.....then rudder.
The airplane was going about 250 mph.

[bob91403]

Yep, pilot error. He would have been better off to use either more elevator and power, or less elevator and power to get out of the BAD air. They are ALL familiar with wake turbulance. If he was in that much of a hurry to stay on schedule, rather than waiting for clean air, he's an idiot, and should never have been flying. Ultimately, it IS the pilots responsibility. It is HIS call. If someone tells him to go now, he can tell them to screw off. The flight controllers are supposed to advise him regarding possible wake situations, if they didn't they screwed up. If he didn't know there was a possibility for this situation that's his fault. He should know what has just taken off in front of him. Again, as they concluded, pilot error.

[Randal]

How long does it take wake turbulence to dissipate?

[F4i]

They stay fairly strong for the first two min. then up to five to fully dissipate. We had a guy in a 172 recently flip here in Calgary. I guess he was trying to read the serial number of the engine of an antonov 124. Oops (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

[Howard]

Hey Elliot,

My uncle is an MD-11 guy with UPS. Dave Archer. Know him?

I'm a Lear 35 guy myself, but tried to stick with funny pictures for this thread.

my son is a lear guy with flex jet. who do you fly for? you hot rodders ought to get to know each other.

[airsix]

They stay fairly strong for the first two min. then up to five to fully dissipate. We had a guy in a 172 recently flip here in Calgary. I guess he was trying to read the serial number of the engine of an antonov 124. Oops (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

I brought in a 150 2-3 minutes behind a 727 and hit a patch on final well under pattern altitude that turned me on my ear and dropped my indicated speed to zero momentarily. I think I had about 12 hours at the time. Really puckered my pooper. Got an appology from the tower and a "good recovery" (I had previously informed them I was a student and unfamiliar with that field). Have never come in behind a jet since.

-Ben M.