3.2/901 conversion KEP Clutch & PP issue Options

[larryM]

.UPDATED _ solution found - see below

anybody seen this before? Solutions ??

I have a new-in-box KEP-1 pressure plate that I purchased thru GPR of San Luis Obispo (German Parts & Restoration) as part of a complete FW-Clutch conversion package to fit a 901 transaxle to a 3.2 engine


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today I finally tried to install the clutch

the PP bolt holes are not matching - the edges are about 1.5-2.0 mm inset from the matching bolt holes of the flywheel -

impossible to bolt up unless I hog out the existing holes in the KEP-1 PP

further measuring shows that the OD of the KEP-1 PP is maybe 1.5-2mm mm larger than the ID of the Porsche ring gear

looks like - it would require a big hammer or some grinding on the OD to make this fit correctly

the label on the box only has the KEP logo and "Stage 1 228mm VW/Porsche Presure Plate" printed on it

The Kennedy box says 228 - but the PP inside is a 225 - (a shipping room error somewhere...)

the 225 PP does not match up to the 228mm 930 FW/ring gear - just as said below


problem solved- see post below


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[Krieger]

I think I have that same kit on my 3.0 to 901. I know its 228mm. I do remember the mounting holes in the pressure plate came "clearanced" so it would bolt up. Either the pressure plate or the KEP ring had a pin to correctly locate the PP onto the flywheel. I do not remember the PP being larger than the ID of the ring gear. I can't see it, but I don't think that would be a problem. If the starter can engage the teeth without hitting you might be fine. Remember this is not OEM. KEP makes tons of different adapters for many car and engine combos.

[Jeffs9146]

When I installed my kit on the 3.0L it looked like it wouldn't fit but after getting everything turned the right way it did come together.

I had to tap the edge of the PP before it popped in and I was able to tork the bolts the rest of the way!

I would not enlarge the holes, I would wait until you hear from KEP to decide if it is possible they sent you something else!

[Steve]

If you are using the stock 3.2 flywheel, you will also need an adapter ring from KEP. The pressure plate bolts to this ring. Otherwise they also sell a complete flywheel designed for there 228mm pressure plate and disk.

[SirAndy]

If you are using the stock 3.2 flywheel, you will also need an adapter ring from KEP. The pressure plate bolts to this ring.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Here's what i used, KEP Stage 2 for my 3.6L:

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-179-1185423229.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-179-1185423324.jpg)

[Mark Henry]

My bet is you are you trying to put a kit designed for a 225mm flywheel on a a 245mm flywheel.

[Mark Henry]

This is the adapter I'm making for my 3.0 conversion, it fits the 225mm flywheel on the left, the flywheel on the right doesn't work with the 228mm pressure plate that KEP and others use for this.
I ran into this when a friend basically gave me the late 930 flywheel (245mm) on the right. Great price but it's no damn good to me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I bet Andy's 3.6 conversion uses a whole different (245mm +/-) pressure plate.

Note the 225 flywheel on the left is borrowed, hence my ad in the classifieds. It's a 78-79 3.0 SC flywheel, in 1980 they went to the big hole 225mm flywheel.

[larryM]

so far, the big news here is that there was a 225 kit vs a 228 kit - that is fascinating!!!

WHY ???? (update - KEP says 225 is for VW bus, 228 is for Porsche)

whatever i have is what GPR sold as a complete conversion for 3.2 to 901, KEP box marked 228

- yes I have the correct adaptor ring gear, no it's not a 245mm FW, no pin in the adaptor ring - PP holes do not match up to ring - about 1-2mm off as stated above

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[Steve]

That ring bolts to the flywheel through the recessed holes and then you install the disk and bolt the pressure plate to the ring. If the pressure plate doesn't match the ring then they sold you the wrong pressure plate.
The clutch and pressure plate are reinforced 228mm bus parts from KEP. Hence the stage 1 and 2 options hold up to various amounts of torque. I ran the stage 2 kit with my 3.2 and was very happy with it. It's just as reliable as stock, except the pedal was a little harder to push.

[Mark Henry]

so far, the big news here is that there was a 225 kit vs a 228 kit - that is fascinating!!!

WHY ????

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The 225 kit does use the 228mm pressure plate, the holes do need slight enlarging (elongating), but it's the adaptor ring that holds it centred in place. You shouldn't have to this as it should be done so let the seller look at it before whipping the drill out.

If you were local I'd look at it for you...fix it for a (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

GPR will come good if there's an issue.

[rfuerst911sc]

I'm using a KEP Stage II on my 914 GT clone with a 3.0 and 901. Used the OEM flywheel and purchased a ring gear adapter, pressure plate, clutch disc and TO bearing from KEP and it all went together with no modifications needed. Has worked great for 2 + years. I'm sure between KEP + GPR they will get this sorted out for you. Good luck.

[Krieger]

You do not need the gear ring on the 3.2 flywheel. It would reduce the weight some, but you'd need to rebalance. I bolted the kep adapter ring to my 3.0 flywheel then had it balanced. FWIW as it sits now your setup is a few pounds heavier the the 3.2 had originally.

[larryM]

I do NOT use a 3.2 oem FW - the entire package is a conversion kit for using the 901 with 3.2 -

FW is part number 930-102-033-01

in fact the entire assembled setup is 10 lbs LIGHTER than the entire g50 setup

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You do not need the gear ring on the 3.2 flywheel. It would reduce the weight some, but you'd need to rebalance. I bolted the kep adapter ring to my 3.0 flywheel then had it balanced. FWIW as it sits now your setup is a few pounds heavier the the 3.2 had originally.

[larryM]

WOW - you nailed it

I just found the GPR invoice - it says part number "916-116-911-00 clutch set - 901 - 225 kit"

so far, the big news here is that there was a 225 kit vs a 228 kit - that is fascinating!!!

WHY ????

.

The 225 kit does use the 228mm pressure plate, the holes do need slight enlarging (elongating), but it's the adaptor ring that holds it centred in place. You shouldn't have to this as it should be done so let the seller look at it before whipping the drill out.

If you were local I'd look at it for you...fix it for a (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

GPR will come good if there's an issue.

[SirAndy]

I do NOT use a 3.2 oem FW

Aha. I am using a stock (albeit lighter) 3.6L flywheel.

The whole idea of the adapter ring is that you can use the stock flywheel and yet be able to run a 901 transmission.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[patssle]

However, you can get a brand new flywheel that has the ring gear already on it from KEP if you don't need any of the sensor stuff on the existing flywheel.

(about to pull the trigger on that purchase for a 3.0L to 901)

[Mark Henry]

You do not need the gear ring on the 3.2 flywheel. It would reduce the weight some, but you'd need to rebalance. I bolted the kep adapter ring to my 3.0 flywheel then had it balanced. FWIW as it sits now your setup is a few pounds heavier the the 3.2 had originally.

Yes you do, the 3.2 starter ring doesn't sit out far enough the engage the starter. Balance on the ring and PP should have been done, I've been told it's not as critical on a 911 engine as they are more naturally balanced than a T4.

I'm using a KEP Stage II on my 914 GT clone with a 3.0 and 901. Used the OEM flywheel and purchased a ring gear adapter, pressure plate, clutch disc and TO bearing from KEP and it all went together with no modifications needed. Has worked great for 2 + years. I'm sure between KEP + GPR they will get this sorted out for you. Good luck.

Because it was already modified (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Mark Henry]

WOW - you nailed it

I just found the GPR invoice - it says part number "916-116-911-00 clutch set - 901 - 225 kit"

so far, the big news here is that there was a 225 kit vs a 228 kit - that is fascinating!!!

WHY ????

.

The 225 kit does use the 228mm pressure plate, the holes do need slight enlarging (elongating), but it's the adaptor ring that holds it centred in place. You shouldn't have to this as it should be done so let the seller look at it before whipping the drill out.

If you were local I'd look at it for you...fix it for a (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

GPR will come good if there's an issue.

So is your issue because you have a 245mm flywheel?
If it is and you have motronic you will need a early 3.2 flywheel.

[larryM]

I DO NOT have a 245mm g50 FW

- I have a new 930- 228mm FW

it appears you are absolutely correct about the 225mm vs 228mm PP mismatch

The Kennedy box says 228 - but the PP inside is a 225 - (a shipping room error somewhere...)

the 225 PP does not match up to the 228mm 930 FW/ring gear - just as said above

Kennedy says there are TWO differences:

1. the bolt holes issue (they elongate them to solve) and
2. the diaphragm fingers on the correct one have flats at the T/O brg

Kennedy will exchange for the correct one, for only the shipping costs - hurrah !!!!

- solves my problem -
TIA.

p.s. (if anyone wants to buy a cheap complete 3.2 g50 FW,PP, clutch setup - i have it all)

.

WOW - you nailed it

I just found the GPR invoice - it says part number "916-116-911-00 clutch set - 901 - 225 kit"

so far, the big news here is that there was a 225 kit vs a 228 kit - that is fascinating!!!

WHY ????

.

The 225 kit does use the 228mm pressure plate, the holes do need slight enlarging (elongating), but it's the adaptor ring that holds it centred in place. You shouldn't have to this as it should be done so let the seller look at it before whipping the drill out.

If you were local I'd look at it for you...fix it for a (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

GPR will come good if there's an issue.

So is your issue because you have a 245mm flywheel?
If it is and you have motronic you will need a early 3.2 flywheel.

[larryM]

re: Starter ring gear - teeth location

fwiw -

the transmission side of the Starter teeth on my oem 215mm FW and on my 228 conversion described above for the 901, both measure 42mm from the engine flange

the G50 teeth measure 75mm from the flange (the g50 has a deeper clutch-FW, and thus a thicker "bell housing")

I have not yet measured my 915/3.2 setup for comparison

there is a recent thread about ring gear tooth damage problems that has some useful info about starter depth - here - ring gear damage

As we mix-n-match parts in the quest for improvment, we sometimes run afoul of the factory's engineering best
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)
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