Batteries, Batteries, Batteries, What do you use or recommend in a 914? Original Porsche Battery & Fuel Rail Recall Info Options

[Tom_T]

Tommy -

HO only covers the rubber fuel hoses inside the engine bay & replacing the single use clamps they used, & the full battery cover - nothing else, as Jeff pointed out.

IIRC they did have a "kit" which IIRC only included the big full battery cap in the top photo from Jeff's website & a parts list & service bullitin/circular for the work required to be done - since the rubber fuel hose (with no outer fabric) & hose clamps were standard bulk order items in every shop. They still are today, and certainly they can find another full battery cover in their parts line, as they did using an Audi 100 model's battery cover for the original "HO kits" back in the `70's.

So that story about no more kits is pure BS - since under Federal law PCNA is required to find a way to do such safety related mandatory recalls - per PCNA's own staff & my own research! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

My guess is that the Brumos mechanics, service writers, service mgr. etc. don't want to mess with it on a Porsche model which is older than most/all of them, & only went as far as asking PCNA parts if they have any "kits" - so they aren't going to do anything they don't have to - especially for customers who don't go there for all of their regular service.

The Porsche dealerships &/or PCNA should have copies on-hand of the required NHTSA service bullitin/circular for this "HO Recall," but many dealers may have purged their files even though they're required by Federal Law to keep all mandatory recall ones.

So first download & print out a few copies of the HO recall from Jeff's site (1 each for you, Brumos & PCNA & NHTSA-if needed), then do as I did & call PCNA directly to customer care & go thru their "official process" above, & if they try to wiggle, thell them it is mandatory with no time limit, & you'd have to report it to NHTSA if they won't.

You can email/PM me if you have trouble & we can talk by phone if you have any trouble with them. Also IIRC "TC" on here works for a P-dealer in Tampa-St. Pete, so he may have some insight.

BTW - the HO & other recall letter codes were just a series of recall designations used by either NHTSA or Porsche to ID them.

FYI - make sure that the service techs who eventually do the work know to do it with the fuel hose & clamps spec'ed for the higher pressure of the Djet EFI system, & not the lower pressure stuff for carb'ed Porsches.

If you've changed out your fuel lines recently, then you may want to go thru the process with PCNA for HO Recall approval now, and then sit on it for awhile until you need new fuel hoses again anyway.

Also, I see at least 2 914s in your avatar pic, so do all of them on the same call to PCNA described above, & get them to do it for any/all of your 914s at the same time to save yourself time & grief! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Chris H.]

I have a red top that was purchased in 2004 and it still works perfectly...highly recommend it provided the quality is the same. A Battery Tender is the key to a long life in my experience.... When I purchased mine there were two 34's. Make sure you get the one that has the + and - posts in the correct place for the 914 configuration. I think the "standard" model had them reversed but they did make them both ways.. Small detail but can be a PITA since the cables are made exactly the right length as most German parts are. No slack!

[rfuerst911sc]

Just to clarify my two yellow tops were kept on a battery maintainer with AGM mode.

[doorknobcollector]

When I purchased mine there were two 34's. Make sure you get the one that has the + and - posts in the correct place for the 914 configuration.

I think the 34R is the correct one--fit without modification in my 914

BTW, I have two newer Optima's that I purchased since 2009, and they have also not had any problems, but have been trickle charge maintained almost the entire time...

[PlaysWithCars]

I've become a fan of the Odyssey batteries. I ran one for a couple of years in my 914-2.0 and it worked flawlessly. I recently installed one in my 914-6 and so far so good. I also have a buddy that has been running the same battery in his 911SC for many years w/ no problems.

They also make a simple, but effective formed sheetmetal mount that works good. My car had the battery tray removed and the battery installed in the trunk before I bought it, but it was done poorly. The Odyssey is a much cleaner installation.

[Rand]

I've become a fan of the Odyssey batteries.

I'm also running an Odyssey PC680 and love it. Compact, light, and sealed.

The Reno winters occasionally get pretty cold (to single digits) and it has started my car every week. I do put a trickle charger on every once in a while.

[mskala]

[quote]
I've become a fan of the Odyssey batteries.[/quote]
I'm also running an Odyssey PC680 and love it. Compact, light, and sealed.
[/quote]
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Been running the PC680 in stock location for many years, always just works
that first day in march when I need to crank the -6 about 10 times to get it
going. Just bought a new one for ~$119 even though the old one is not dead
yet.

[mskala]

[quote]
I've become a fan of the Odyssey batteries.[/quote]
I'm also running an Odyssey PC680 and love it. Compact, light, and sealed.
[/quote]
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Been running the PC680 in stock location for many years, always just works
that first day in march when I need to crank the -6 about 10 times to get it
going. Just bought a new one for ~$119 even though the old one is not dead
yet.

[tumamilhem]

Which Odyssey do you guys recommend?

Any preference Odyssey over Optima, anybody? Why/Why not?

[Rand]

Which Odyssey do you guys recommend?
.....Why?

You must have missed the part when we said PC680. But they make bigger ones too.

I'm confused.... I thought some of the "why" was also answered? Gotta read those replies. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
The PC680 is sealed, compact, and light. That's why.


(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/fc06.deviantart.net-3573-1360788142.1.jpg)

Oy, I tend to offend when I do that. You know I'm mostly joking.

[tumamilhem]

I saw it was a Odyssey PC680. But I'm not familiar with them and not sure if people use their other batteries Also for example lots of drivers use Optima Yellow Top, but they do not last long because they put out more power on a constant basis, wearing the battery out faster. Whereas the Red Top shoots out a lot of power to start the car and utilizes only the power it needs to run the car instead of putting out an over-output of power, wasting it. Coincidentally, non-closed top batteries that do this heat up the battery causing it to bubble up and leak.

Also, as I found out, our car battery size is 42. But Optima doesn't make a 42 (someone was asking about this the other day). It does come in a 35 - two of them, which is taller. So someone not familiar will need to know this and also know that even though it's taller, there is enough clearance in the compartment for it, so it's a non-issue. Also, there are 2 size 35 batteries. I believe the one that fits best with the terminal configuration is the 35 R.

So these are good examples of what and why I was asking about regarding which one and why the preference, to weigh the pros and cons that most may not be aware of but want to find the battery suited to them and which is preferred in comparison between the two - Odyssey (any model) and Optima (Red Top). Hope these details help people make a decision.

For me, not being familiar with Odyssey, I was ready to go buy a Red Top. Now with this new-found preference for Odyssey, I'm going to research that to compare, which was the whole purpose of this thread. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[914Eric]

Slight hijack...

PS - An interesting data point in this recall campaign is that it applies to ~83,000 USA 914s, and was issued the year after the last 914 was produced. This is the strongest evidence I have come across that only ~83,000 914s came to our shores, because this recall campaign applied to all USA 914s imported to the USA.

Jeff - here is something to back up that observation:

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

WHERE did you find that? Source...? That must be a listing by calendar year not model year. Awesome, now that we know how many were shipped here, now we need to figuure out how many remain.

And how many were 2.0 vs 1.7/1.8
Having the number shipped by color would also be very cool.

[Rand]

Sorry if this is a tangent, but I think it is relevant. Regarding AGM..... Yes, gel cell batteries are different than wet cells. But please explain the need for a different kind of charger.

Please address the fact that sealed batteries are put in the same cars with the same alternators and charging circuits and old lead acid wet batteries.

If you suggest we need a different kind of charger, are you also suggesting we need a different kind of alternator, voltage regulator, and all the rest in our car?

How EXACTLY does an AGM charger differ from other trickle chargers?

Good discussion.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[balljoint]

Which Odyssey do you guys recommend?

Any preference Odyssey over Optima, anybody? Why/Why not?

I think the Optima looks pretty good in the red top. Do they have other colours too?

The red goes with my red cloth covered hoses but not so well with the Sunflower Yellow on my car, Mr. Sunflower.

I wonder if the Odyssey batteries have colour options as well?

Good thread.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[tumamilhem]

Sorry if this is a tangent, but I think it is relevant. Regarding AGM..... Yes, gel cell batteries are different than wet cells. But please explain the need for a different kind of charger.

Please address the fact that sealed batteries are put in the same cars with the same alternators and charging circuits and old lead acid wet batteries.

If you suggest we need a different kind of charger, are you also suggesting we need a different kind of alternator, voltage regulator, and all the rest in our car?

How EXACTLY does an AGM charger differ from other trickle chargers?

Good discussion.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Yeah, those are all excellent points. Ones that happily delay my decision further to find out.

[Rand]

Now with this new-found preference for Odyssey

Not necessarily! None of this is new-found. You are just new about discovering it. Curious if you have searched this topic before here?

There are a thousand pages already documented on this subject over several years. I appreciate you trying to pull it all together in one thread, but it doesn't work that way. Do some serious research here before you think you are doing something new.

Bottom line: Lead acid batteries are old school. If you have to add water to it, then get rid of it. There are multiple choices for new school batteries. They aren't hard to find.

[tumamilhem]

Which Odyssey do you guys recommend?

Any preference Odyssey over Optima, anybody? Why/Why not?

I think the Optima looks pretty good in the red top. Do they have other colours too?

The red goes with my red cloth covered hoses but not so well with the Sunflower Yellow on my car, Mr. Sunflower.

I wonder if the Odyssey batteries have colour options as well?

Good thread.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

LOL! Okay, I'm not sure if you are kidding or not. I assume you are, but in case you're not, I outlined this earlier but I'll include it here in case you missed it.

These are the differences between them per Optima, FYI:

The YELLOWTOP® high-performance AGM battery has everything you need. It’s one of the true dual-purpose automotive batteries available. With premium cranking power and impressive cycling capability, it’s perfect for modern accessory-loaded vehicles. The YELLOWTOP can repeatedly be brought back from deep power drains to full charge, so it can power plenty of electronics and still start you up time after time. Low internal resistance also provides more consistent power output and faster recharges.

Trucks with winches, vehicles with high-demand electronics and audio systems, commercial vehicles and heavy equipment can all rely on this battery to provide ultimate starting and deep-cycle power.

The REDTOP® high-performance AGM battery is the ultimate starting battery designed to deliver a powerful burst of ignition power for a reliable start-up every time. The REDTOP will outperform and outlast traditional batteries in demanding cranking/starting applications. With impressive high-power delivery and extreme resistance to the most common causes of battery failure, the REDTOP is ideal for trucks, SUVs, hot rods, street cars and other applications that require a spillproof starting battery.

Blue Top is for boats and RVs so I didn't bother including.

So yes, they do come in other colors, but the colors identify their purpose/application.

Why do I feel like the joke's on me now? I didn't know about Optima until recently, nor the differences between them, so I hope this helps. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[tumamilhem]

Now with this new-found preference for Odyssey

Not necessarily! None of this is new-found. You are just new about discovering it. Curious if you have searched this topic before here?

There are a thousand pages already documented on this subject over several years. I appreciate you trying to pull it all together in one thread, but it doesn't work that way. Do some serious research here before you think you are doing something new.

Bottom line: Lead acid batteries are old school. If you have to add water to it, then get rid of it. There are multiple choices for new school batteries. They aren't hard to find.

Yeah, I did look back and search but a LOT of things come up with the word 'battery' in it, very non-related to this discussion though. And not much detail or questions answered that I and what I think others may want to ask. So I thought a one-stop Battery specific topic would be helpful. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Rand]

Oof. Eric likes a pink top.
Jokes on everyone now.

Marketing.... Yes, every color top is the best.

For what it's worth, in the old school days.... Yellow=deep cycle which is better for RVs or situations that drain longer and charge less often. Red=better for cars but need to be topped off as much as possible.... Because you have an alternator, right? Or trickle it. Better cranking amps. RED=normal for cars. Yellow=not faster.

[tumamilhem]

Tommy -

HO only covers the rubber fuel hoses inside the engine bay & replacing the single use clamps they used, & the full battery cover - nothing else, as Jeff pointed out.

IIRC they did have a "kit" which IIRC only included the big full battery cap in the top photo from Jeff's website & a parts list & service bullitin/circular for the work required to be done - since the rubber fuel hose (with no outer fabric) & hose clamps were standard bulk order items in every shop. They still are today, and certainly they can find another full battery cover in their parts line, as they did using an Audi 100 model's battery cover for the original "HO kits" back in the `70's.

So that story about no more kits is pure BS - since under Federal law PCNA is required to find a way to do such safety related mandatory recalls - per PCNA's own staff & my own research! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

My guess is that the Brumos mechanics, service writers, service mgr. etc. don't want to mess with it on a Porsche model which is older than most/all of them, & only went as far as asking PCNA parts if they have any "kits" - so they aren't going to do anything they don't have to - especially for customers who don't go there for all of their regular service.

The Porsche dealerships &/or PCNA should have copies on-hand of the required NHTSA service bullitin/circular for this "HO Recall," but many dealers may have purged their files even though they're required by Federal Law to keep all mandatory recall ones.

So first download & print out a few copies of the HO recall from Jeff's site (1 each for you, Brumos & PCNA & NHTSA-if needed), then do as I did & call PCNA directly to customer care & go thru their "official process" above, & if they try to wiggle, thell them it is mandatory with no time limit, & you'd have to report it to NHTSA if they won't.

You can email/PM me if you have trouble & we can talk by phone if you have any trouble with them. Also IIRC "TC" on here works for a P-dealer in Tampa-St. Pete, so he may have some insight.

BTW - the HO & other recall letter codes were just a series of recall designations used by either NHTSA or Porsche to ID them.

FYI - make sure that the service techs who eventually do the work know to do it with the fuel hose & clamps spec'ed for the higher pressure of the Djet EFI system, & not the lower pressure stuff for carb'ed Porsches.

If you've changed out your fuel lines recently, then you may want to go thru the process with PCNA for HO Recall approval now, and then sit on it for awhile until you need new fuel hoses again anyway.

Also, I see at least 2 914s in your avatar pic, so do all of them on the same call to PCNA described above, & get them to do it for any/all of your 914s at the same time to save yourself time & grief! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I do appreciate that information. Very much.

I think the kit is discontinued, and probably the parts individually may be available. They looked up the kit and that part number was discontinued years ago, while the individual parts may still remain with their individual part numbers.

The guy who was looking into all this (Blair) who is one of the service managers, spent a week and a half researching this. He even corresponded with Porsche in Germany.

I sent him all the info and documents regarding the recall, including links to other parts (SS lines by Tangerine Racing) from Jeff's 914 website (which he was very impressed Jeff has all that info on hand as it took them a while to find anything, so kudos to Jeff, whom I talked up quite a bit to Brumos, even telling them about his white plastic lines and wiring harnesses. Happy to support!) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Unfortunately, the call I just got from Brumos ended my claim. Apparently, the recall was performed on my car soon after it was made in 1977, though those parts aren't on my car (still plastic lines).

So I guess I'm out a buck. Going to splurge for SS lines when I can afford it. Still have other parts to get for my car too (OG gauges, fog grills, bumper top, etc.).

If I may go off my own topic for just a quick moment in relation. I know most of you guys can do most of the work on your cars yourself. I'm not much of a mechanic. Has anybody taken their car to a shop to replace the lines with SS lines and if so, about what does it cost altogether?