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> Got air, fuel, spark... no start? Fixed
sfrenck
post Mar 9 2013, 02:31 PM
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73 2.0L Djet pulled from my 73 last year (engine ran fine until it was pulled a year ago). I just put in into my 74 (former 1.8L) shell.

-While the engine was out I changed the oil cooler seals, rechecked the valves using the Cap'n method
-Seatbelt interlock jumpered out
-Have 30PSI fuel pressure when cranking
-Cranks and has 11.3volts at the starter when cranking (maybe a 1.25 volt drop while cranking)
-Good ground wire from the trans to the body +another 4 gauge wire from a bolt holding the starter back to the negative battery terminal
-New battery with 800+ CCA
-Have spark at every plug (pulled the plug wire at the plug, put a 5th plug on the wire and saw the spark for every cylinder)
-Pulled the injectors and got good spray / equal flow from all
-Cold start valve fuel line pinched off (after having the same symptoms when the line wasn't pinched off)

Static timed it, moved the dizzy around a bit when cranking - no start.

It almost starts immediately, but it doesn't catch and then it just sounds like it's cranking. I thought the cold weather may have been giving me a problem with the 20w50 oil, but it's almost 60 degrees today and the car is nice and warm sitting in the sun.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

3/10 data:
-Cold compression test has 115# on 1,2 and 4, only 80# on 3 (3 was always lower when the engine was running last year)
-Pulled spark plugs are all firing with strong white spark
-not a lot of tach needle movement when cranking, even with the plugs out while testing them for spark (resting on the fan housing) - but the needle does move
-Didn't smell a lot of gas on 3 and 4 spark plugs. Wonder if I did something idiotic and left paper towels in the engine where the air runner intakes connect on that side? Would account for injectors firing but no gas smell on that side (soaking the paper towel). Guess I'll pull the runner over there again. No towels

3/12 data:
Now the key/ignition runs the fuel pump when turned, but the starter doesn't engage. I've got an Actron remote trigger starter that will activate the starter.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif)

Hard to add gas to the plenum while troubleshooting all this... added this info to last post for bump.

3/16 data:
Starter fluid down the TB while cranking and it fires up. Dies shortly thereafter. 3/16 post by me.
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914itis
post Mar 9 2013, 02:46 PM
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Did you forget to plug the CHT?
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sfrenck
post Mar 9 2013, 03:32 PM
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CHT is plugged in, reads normal at the ECU end of the harness.
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bulitt
post Mar 9 2013, 03:35 PM
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Stuck valve? Put hand over throttle body and crank engine. Shoul suck your hand down tight.
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914itis
post Mar 9 2013, 03:36 PM
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Try to bypass it by grounding the end coming from the ecu harness. Them you have to start looking at points and condenser. Check for spark.
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sfrenck
post Mar 9 2013, 03:46 PM
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Pertronix - and I have spark.

Sucks the hand down tight on the TB when cranking? Never heard of that. Just checked, it pulled my hand when it tried to fire - then it didn't catch and it wasn't sucking thru the TB any more.
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TheCabinetmaker
post Mar 9 2013, 03:52 PM
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Pour a little fuel in the throttle body. If it starts and dies, you have a fuel delivery problem. Usually when this happens upon engine reinstalling its crossed fuel lines.
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sfrenck
post Mar 9 2013, 04:28 PM
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QUOTE(The Cabinetmaker @ Mar 9 2013, 04:52 PM) *

Pour a little fuel in the throttle body. If it starts and dies, you have a fuel delivery problem. Usually when this happens upon engine reinstalling its crossed fuel lines.

Got good fuel pressure and good spray from all injectors.
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IanJ
post Mar 9 2013, 09:20 PM
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QUOTE(sfrenck @ Mar 10 2013, 06:28 AM) *

QUOTE(The Cabinetmaker @ Mar 9 2013, 04:52 PM) *

Pour a little fuel in the throttle body. If it starts and dies, you have a fuel delivery problem. Usually when this happens upon engine reinstalling its crossed fuel lines.

Got good fuel pressure and good spray from all injectors.


Timing out 180 degrees? Leads in wrong order?
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tod914
post Mar 9 2013, 09:37 PM
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Maybe try points and a condensor if you have a spare. Check to make sure your fi trigger points are not pitted. All your grounds connected? Harness hooked up correctly? I can send you a jpeg schematic if you need it. Just foward me your email if you need it. Maybe check the spark plug wiring order again like Ian suggested. Swapped fuel lines can give you the same symptons like Curt mentioned. Go down the check list I guess :S
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914itis
post Mar 9 2013, 09:50 PM
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QUOTE(tod914 @ Mar 9 2013, 10:37 PM) *

Maybe try points and a condensor if you have a spare. Check to make sure your fi trigger points are not pitted. All your grounds connected? Harness hooked up correctly? I can send you a jpeg schematic if you need it. Just foward me your email if you need it. Maybe check the spark plug wiring order again like Ian suggested. Swapped fuel lines can give you the same symptons like Curt mentioned. Go down the check list I guess :S

He's using pertronix and he has sparks .
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old dog
post Mar 9 2013, 09:59 PM
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QUOTE(sfrenck @ Mar 9 2013, 12:31 PM) *

73 2.0L Djet pulled from my 73 last year (engine ran fine until it was pulled a year ago). I just put in into my 74 (former 1.8L) shell.

-While the engine was out I changed the oil cooler seals, rechecked the valves using the Cap'n method
-Seatbelt interlock jumpered out
-Have 30PSI fuel pressure when cranking
-Cranks and has 11.3volts at the starter when cranking (maybe a 1.25 volt drop while cranking)
-Good ground wire from the trans to the body +another 4 gauge wire from a bolt holding the starter back to the negative battery terminal
-New battery with 800+ CCA
-Have spark at every plug (pulled the plug wire at the plug, put a 5th plug on the wire and saw the spark for every cylinder)
-Pulled the injectors and got good spray / equal flow from all
-Cold start valve fuel line pinched off (after having the same symptoms when the line wasn't pinched off)

Static timed it, moved the dizzy around a bit when cranking - no start.

It almost starts immediately, but it doesn't catch and then it just sounds like it's cranking. I thought the cold weather may have been giving me a problem with the 20w50 oil, but it's almost 60 degrees today and the car is nice and warm sitting in the sun.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)
Just because you have spark at the plugs, that doesn't mean the plugs in the engine are not soaked with fuel or oil and incapable of firing. Might be worth it to pull them and check just in case. They like warm and dry.
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sfrenck
post Mar 10 2013, 10:23 AM
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Bump for more info listed in original post
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JamesM
post Mar 10 2013, 11:49 AM
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As mentioned earlier, try putting some fuel down the TB before starting. Injectors may be firing but may not be firing enough.

If they were firing to much and fouling things you probably would have smelled it by now.

If you did leave paper towels in the intake and you are feeling suction at the TB then good chance they were sucked into in the engine by now.
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sfrenck
post Mar 12 2013, 05:25 PM
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Now the ignition runs the fuel pump when turned to start, but the starter doesn't engage. I've got an Actron remote trigger starter that will activate the starter.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif)

Hard to add gas to the plenum while troubleshooting all this.
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914itis
post Mar 12 2013, 10:01 PM
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Dead battery now? You don't need the air cleaner assembly on to start the diet. You can remove it and spray with starting fluid to diagnose
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PlaysWithCars
post Mar 12 2013, 10:34 PM
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Fuel, air, spark, compression You've got the basics needed.

Is the coil hooked up to ignition 12v, or to the starter solenoid? i.e only getting power when the starter is engaged? Same with fuel pump. It should run for a few seconds when the key is turned on, then shut off until the starter is engaged and then continue to run when the engines starts.
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sfrenck
post Mar 16 2013, 11:40 AM
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Fired up and died with starter fluid down the TB. I made sure that I jumpered the fuel pump to run in the "key on" position so that I had 30psi while cranking with the remote trigger starter.

30 psi is read from a gauge teed into the cold start valve fuel line. Bumped the fuel pressure up a couple of psi - no joy.
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Black22
post Mar 16 2013, 01:47 PM
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QUOTE(sfrenck @ Mar 16 2013, 09:40 AM) *

Fired up and died with starter fluid down the TB.


I'd bet a substantial amount of money your supply and return fuel lines are mixed up. This will put fuel through the lines, but won't run the engine. If it starts with starter fluid, that means its not getting the fuel it needs.

And yes, I read all the posts saying you have fuel and fuel pressure. Fuel IS your problem.

I have crossed the ones before and my car had the exact same problem. From the pump(underneath the car) and the fuel rails(topside), it is easy to swap things around.
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timothy_nd28
post Mar 16 2013, 02:06 PM
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