Dual Carb Installation, Success - She Screams Options

[Mblizzard]

Talked with Redline. They think it is an idle jet problem and that I should not be concerned with what appears to be used parts in my new carbs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

So I told them put up or shut up. I told them to send me the jets they thought would fix the problem. If that works then I would pay for the jets, shipping and let the replacement issue go. If it did not fix them problem then they had to overnight new carbs. Lets see how they respond.

But I would like to think that at this point that they would understand there are definitely some potential legal issues here in regarding to selling what might be used parts as new. I would hope that they would want to avoid the perception that may cause.

[ThePaintedMan]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Selling used parts as "new" is a big no-no, and I'm sure there is legal recourse you can take. Perhaps you might remind them that the Better Business Bureau, Google and multiple internet forums are powerful tools that you, the consumer, have at your disposal?

I would want a detailed explanation why there are used parts in your new carbs.

[rhodyguy]

MIKE!! next step is contact your credit card co and explain the situation. don't warn redline of your intentions. again, get the ball rolling. i'll bet a buck your carbs, or at least one of them has been returned before. they're just passing them along. the float 'don't worry' is a bag-o-shite. i went thru this same sort of hassle on the bent wheel replacement and prevailed. screw the email trade/stall tactic. you need to speak with a warm body, not some faceless employee reading from a "do this, then that" check list.

k

[Mblizzard]

Following Kevin's suggestion, I contacted Amazon and told them about my problems with the carbs seeming to contain used parts. There reply was "that's not right you paid for new parts." When I told Amazon about the reluctance for Redline to send replacements, they said the vendor might be able to stall or not do the right thing to an individual but they will take a return from Amazon if they want to keep doing business with us. Amazon is shipping a complete new kit to arrive on Monday!

That is how this issue should have been addressed to begin with.

[timothy_nd28]

I just hope that the carbs were indeed the problem.

[Mblizzard]

The one thing I will give Redline credit for is that they did spend a considerable amount of time trying to convince me the carbs were not the problem and there was just some adjustment that I had not completed that would fix everything. The only problem is that they ran long enough only once to go through the set up process. The rest of the time all i could do is wait for then to flood out and stall. I am sure there will be some jet issues to be resolved but if the carbs won't run the car long enough to complete the set up, then the carbs are not really useful.

If there was only an adjustment problem with the carbs then they would run the car even if it was poorly, and then when you made the adjustments they would make a difference in the performance. If you look at the very bad video you will see that I essentially had nothing operating on the idle circuit at some points and then after shutting the car off, the idle circuit would return. There is no adjustment to fix that problem that I know of.

[ThePaintedMan]

Something I thought about, which may or may not be related to the QC of these carbs you're dealing with.

Whenever you pull them off the car, check the throttle bodies and how they seal inside the throttle bores. You should be able to get them to close well enough so that you can barely see any light coming past them (use a flashlight in the throttle body itself).

The other thing to look for is that the plate itself covers up the lowest progression hole in the progression circuit. There are several of them - they are tiny little holes that should not be exposed at all when the plates are closed. If they are exposed, they will continually leak fuel which may be part of the symptoms you're experiencing.

If they weren't set correctly from Redline or simply don't fit correctly do to improper machining, this is the only other thing I can think of which would be causing the carbs not to operate on the idle circuit as it should.

['73-914kid]

Just going to put this out there:

First off, the used older jets are better machined than the new ones coming from China. A 50 idle jet, is a 50 idle jet. I don't care if they're new or used, as long as the quality of the machining and precision is there. The only thing you really need to watch out for is if the jets have been reamed out to a larger diameter, and no longer agree with the number stamped on the jet. New for me means a new carburetor. I couldn't give a rats ass if the jets are new or not, because you're guaranteed to be replacing them for some other size.

Secondly, I find it extremely hard to believe that this is a carburetor issue. I'm not belittling your mechanical ability of diagnosis, but there is something else going wrong here. Something Jake Raby always used to say was, "90% of perceived carb issues are realistically problems somewhere else in the system." I bought 2 40 IDF's from Redline, cleaned up the float bowls, set floats, and the car started without issue.

Thirdly, have you tried to run the car with the linkage off? I know it sounds silly, but remove the linkage altogether, and back the accelerator pump nuts off almost completely. set the throttle plates on each carb evenly, and start it that way.


And finally.. have you tried running compressed air through the jet passages? Like was said above, the passageways are complicated, and these were sandcast. Remove the pump bleed jet from inside the float bowl, and remove ALL jets, mixture screws, etc, and blow compressed air through each passageway. I can almost guarantee you there is something blocking the passages, or that there is something else wrong.



What size motor do you have and what size venturi, idle, main, and Emulsion tubes did they come with?

[Mblizzard]

I find it extremely hard to believe that this is a carburetor issue also!

But I have run it with linkage off and on.. I have painstakingly gone through the carbs three time. And removed and cleaned all you listed except for the pump bleed jet.

I have backed the accelerator pump nuts off almost and used a feeler gauge to verify that the throttle plates on each carb are indeed set evenly (thanks Kevin) and with every check and option implemented the exact problem persists. There is something inside the carb maybe from the casting process that blocks a passage and it seems impossible to remove with compressed air or cleaning.

The motor is a 1911 with a carb cam

venturi = 36
idle = 50
main, 135
and Emulsion tubes F11

['73-914kid]

36mm Vent is HUGE for a 1911. My only thinking on this is that the venturis are so huge that the air velocity at low rpm's is such that the fuel isn't really becoming atomized. This may be compounding a problem with the idle circuit.

[brant]

a 1911cc would probably be happy with a 28 or 30 venturi

[Mblizzard]

While the concerns with the size and Venturis are valid, to my knowledge none of these concerns should prevent the carbs from operating. Certainly performance could be reduced but they should operate and allow the car to run well enough to make adjustments.

I am not so sure that I am right that I would turn down a single suggestion. But take a look at the video of the car and see if you can directly relate the problem to any size issue. Because the car will idle well for a short time and shutting the engine down will allow it to clear the non functioning stage, it is difficult to support the size concerns when the carbs will run the car until something else causes the problem. I am trying to think this through so I won't be offended if someone says I know this problem all you have to do is .........

All I want is for my car to run!

[timothy_nd28]

consider going back to the factory cam and FI (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[Mblizzard]

Going back to FI is a long term goal. But if someone has a complete FI system they would like to trade for some weber 44s I am open to considering it.

My 2.0 was FI and it ran quits well.

[ThePaintedMan]

I didn't know you had 36 vents on there either. While the fact remains that you got used parts with carbs that were sold to you new, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) with Brant and Ethan. Even a really strong, well-breathing 1911 isn't going to be able to suck a volume of air that would work with those. (Refer to Bob Tomlinson's graph in his Weber manual).

At idle the situation will be likely be even worse, as you can't generate enough velocity with such a large opening on each barrel. The velocity of the air has a direct correlation with how much fuel each cylinder gets as well.

Now that you have new carbs on the way (hopefully), you got the ideal situation and will be able to eliminate them if everything else is left the same. If it still doesn't run correctly, maybe it would be time to consider much smaller vents - probably in the range of 28-30 as Brant mentioned. An engine that's going to see a lot of top end use will lean towards 30s, while an "around towner" will like 28s.

[rhodyguy]

the vents will certainly affect low speed operation. i think the failure of ANY of the idle air mixture needle screws to change the idle tuning/performance tells more than the 36s. throttle tip in at the progression ports might make for a bit of and on off switch. we're talking a whopping 60 cc of displacement.

this one i'm unsure of. how small of a venturi will the 44s accept?

k

[Mblizzard]

According to AEC they can go to 28 or 30 I think. I have almost just convinced my self to send the new ones to them for set up. If I can clear through the CFO I may just do that Monday.

They said they would set them to run on my engine, change the Venturis for $200 plus jets.

[rhodyguy]

check your pms mike. share the idle jet advice from redline with the crowd. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) hell, share it all so we can have a collective wince. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

k

[Mblizzard]

I have new carbs in hand! Went through them. What do you know there did not appear to be used parts in these. They were packaged completely different than the others. So I think that it is pretty clear I got at least some used items.

I will start the install tomorrow.

[jmill]

It'll run with the 36 vents. I had 44's with 36 vents on a 1914. It had a high lift long duration cam with chevy 2.02 intake valves. Smooth transition to the main jets took quite a bit of tweaking. You up for more playing around? You might be happier with the smaller vents and less playing around. If not I'll say the F11 ET's are designed for a lean transition. Not good for your low velocity situation. The first thing I did was swap them out.