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> Ring and Pinion Backlash, What's everyone doing?
0396
post Oct 8 2013, 12:31 PM
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QUOTE(Dr Evil @ Oct 8 2013, 09:34 AM) *

QUOTE(Jon B @ Oct 8 2013, 12:49 AM) *

QUOTE(Dr Evil @ Apr 16 2013, 10:58 AM) *

I use the factory tool, or at least a clone of it.

Photo below of factory tool, P258, with all accessories.
This tool will only measure pinion depth; other tools are needed to determine ring gear backlash and differential bearing preloads.

I'm curious to see the clones being made.



Jon B.
Vista, CA

Mine was made by a machinist and has the same dimensions as the factory tool. I only have to use it when replacing R/P for failure of inspection or traumatic failure. Most of the time, and I have covered this extensively here and in my DVD, I instruct people to measure gaskets and maintain factory set specs. The vib issues is not much of a concern in the small increments we deal with. It is mainly a nuisance. Many other manufacturers do not do the finite test in leu of just matching patters with dykem or other indicator to a visual pattern.

In a race box, though, I would keep as much friction and vibe out of your setup as fatigue will be highly magnified. Bearings wear and tolerances are quickly lost.



Any pictures of these various copies of the P258??
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Dr Evil
post Oct 8 2013, 12:41 PM
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Ya, in my free time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Sorry, I am at my 9a-9p job and then I will be gutting a few more boxes for goodies.
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Dr Evil
post Oct 8 2013, 12:41 PM
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Search on Pelican as the guy who made them had a thread over there. Just search P258.
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jimkelly
post Oct 8 2013, 12:47 PM
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see post #43

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=91491&st=0

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-45-1231606118_thumb.jpg)
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Dr Evil
post Oct 8 2013, 12:49 PM
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Um, no. That is not it.
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Matt Romanowski
post Oct 8 2013, 01:25 PM
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Post 21 shows one though.
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sixnotfour
post Oct 8 2013, 01:56 PM
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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911...tml#post2402521
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Dr Evil
post Oct 8 2013, 02:42 PM
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QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Oct 8 2013, 03:56 PM) *

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911...tml#post2402521

Ding ding ding
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r_towle
post Oct 8 2013, 07:44 PM
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Matt,

Have you considered replacing the diff housing plates on the outside with thicker ones?

I wonder if you may have experienced flexing, thus heat....dunno
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John
post Oct 8 2013, 07:52 PM
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I use the VW tools. Got them to do 915's, but work equally well on 901's.Attached Image

Attached Image
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Matt Romanowski
post Oct 8 2013, 08:25 PM
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QUOTE(r_towle @ Oct 8 2013, 05:44 PM) *

Matt,

Have you considered replacing the diff housing plates on the outside with thicker ones?

I wonder if you may have experienced flexing, thus heat....dunno


We have a billet intermediate plate and side plate.
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Jon B
post Oct 8 2013, 09:18 PM
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John,

Those are excellent tools, and Porsche-recommended alternative to P258 for 901/911/914 transmissions. I use my set often. Lower photo from 915 manual, showing tool in use with diff cover removed...

Attached Image

Attached Image

Jon B.
Vista, CA
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Jon B
post Oct 8 2013, 09:35 PM
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QUOTE(Matt Romanowski @ Oct 8 2013, 07:25 PM) *
We have a billet intermediate plate and side plate.

Matt,

Were billet IP and diff cover already installed, or new for transmission?
Do you race this car?
What type of engine are you running?

Jon B.
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Matt Romanowski
post Oct 8 2013, 10:46 PM
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QUOTE(Jon B @ Oct 8 2013, 07:35 PM) *

QUOTE(Matt Romanowski @ Oct 8 2013, 07:25 PM) *
We have a billet intermediate plate and side plate.

Matt,

Were billet IP and diff cover already installed, or new for transmission?
Do you race this car?
What type of engine are you running?

Jon B.


The billet IP and diff cover were from a previous transmission that killed itself. It is a race car with a stock 3 liter six in it. 2050 pounds. It gets a lot of time - we'll do almost 3,000 track miles and around 60 hours this year.
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Jon B
post Oct 8 2013, 11:32 PM
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Matt,

You realize that's alot of engine and torque for a 901/914 transmission. I'm not surprised it's running hot. It will be worse with a TBD or LSD installed. I'm curious to see your cooling system.

Compare 901 to early 915 pinion below. The 7-tooth 915 pinion is from a 2.4 liter road car; Porsche went to an 8-tooth pinion in 2.7 liter series. And you're racing with a 3.0 liter engine...

Attached Image

Jon B.
Vista, CA
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Matt Romanowski
post Oct 9 2013, 06:07 AM
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QUOTE(Jon B @ Oct 8 2013, 09:32 PM) *

Matt,

You realize that's alot of engine and torque for a 901/914 transmission. I'm not surprised it's running hot. It will be worse with a TBD or LSD installed. I'm curious to see your cooling system.

Compare 901 to early 915 pinion below. The 7-tooth 915 pinion is from a 2.4 liter road car; Porsche went to an 8-tooth pinion in 2.7 liter series. And you're racing with a 3.0 liter engine...
Jon B.
Vista, CA


It is a lot and around the limit of what you can put through a 901. We pull oil from the drain and put it back on the gears and R+P. The cooler is about 11x8 and has a blower forcing air through it.
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914forme
post Oct 9 2013, 07:17 AM
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Okay the magic mystery tool is really not needed. Okay thats is a miss statement, but if you want to make one, why not measure your own diff, get the exact center. Mark / Machine the position on the diff so you can measure from the same spot each time. Grab another side cover, drill a nice hole in it above the pinion and then use a bore gauge to measure your depth , a little math and you just replaced the VW and Porsche super secret tools.

You don't even need a fancy bore gauge a simple T gauge and a set of calipers will do the trick.

I used this method after talking to Groot about it. And I do believe it worked. I ran that trans for 6 years now, no signs of bad things happening. I pulled the side cover last month and pulled the LSD out. Ring and Pinion where in perfect shape. It might have been luck, I tend to think it was just taking time and doing the math to get it all right. YMMV


Now Pinion Backlash, I hate doing that, shims, pulling in and out. Subaru got that one right on the 5MT. Two bolts and a spanner wrench. Done.
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Dr Evil
post Oct 9 2013, 08:23 AM
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Agreed, I hate setting preload. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
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pcar916
post Oct 9 2013, 08:24 AM
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QUOTE(914forme @ Oct 9 2013, 08:17 AM) *

Now Pinion Backlash, I hate doing that, shims, pulling in and out. Subaru got that one right on the 5MT. Two bolts and a spanner wrench. Done.


An inverted 915/930 is ok too. The R&P is on the "right" side so the gear-stack doesn't have to come out to change spacers/shims.
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r_towle
post Oct 9 2013, 11:19 AM
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QUOTE(Jon B @ Oct 9 2013, 01:32 AM) *

Matt,

You realize that's alot of engine and torque for a 901/914 transmission. I'm not surprised it's running hot. It will be worse with a TBD or LSD installed. I'm curious to see your cooling system.

Compare 901 to early 915 pinion below. The 7-tooth 915 pinion is from a 2.4 liter road car; Porsche went to an 8-tooth pinion in 2.7 liter series. And you're racing with a 3.0 liter engine...

Attached Image

Jon B.
Vista, CA

curious question.
Can you replace the ring and pinion with the 8 tooth setup yet still fit inside the 914/901 box and have everything work properly?
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