buildin the exhaust myself, hmmm, sell two hundred @ 200.00?? Options

[jwalters]

Thanks to all those that gave indespinsable info on where to get headers and prices as well as pics... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

But my project is going to require far more densly packed tubes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol2.gif) . I am almost finished with my turbo motor..1.8, gotta get the heads done next, then I will begin buildin the exhaust myself. I need to put the last 15 yrs of working, building and modifying jet aircraft to some use (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif) I should have the pics of my car up in short order.

But I was thinking, I get the pkging all sorted out for a true bolt on turbo system, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) and I will post all the development as it goes, would anybody else be interested? I mean, it is not fair that the type 1 guys get to have all the turbo fun ,,,right???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mueba.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mueba.gif)

What do ya think??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[Brad Roberts]

I personally think you could sell 12 systems a year. When you do go down the path of making your header... make DAMN good jigs/fixtures from tool steel. This way you can duplicate on high quality fixtures that last. I spent a few years around a exhaust manufacturing company. I know what it takes and I also know how small the market is.


Dont forget to pay yourself. Even at 5$ an hour you will have 500$ into a system after you get the turbo flange cut/tubes bought/bent.


B

[jwalters]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Good suggestion--the great thing about living in SO FL is stuff like this is really high quality, plentiful, and absudly inexpensive---- (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) lets just say I have made all the right contacts in the aerspace division down here ( the largest conglomerate in the world) And have unfettered access to quantity and jobbers prices. I have a spare 1.8 that is going to be my mule. No jigs here, just the real deal on every build, and honestly, once the prototype is made and verified on the nearest chassis dyno----production would be swift (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

But you did make me think about this--what about those guys with non-standard engine widths---hmmmmmmmmm

Thanks again for the critique--I take that stuff seriously and in stride. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Have a red stripe on me.

[Brad Roberts]

The key to none standard engine widths... stub tubes. This is why people shy away from the Kerry Hunter system. You cant port match with a header that doesnt have bolt on stub tubes and you cannot compensate for different engine widths when you dont have bolt on stub tubes.

I'll post some pics in a minute after I find some of them I shot.



B

[Brad Roberts]

This is the EuroRace header. The stub tubes mount to the heads first and are pretty short. It takes a decent machine to "swedge" the end of the stubs to fit the heads. The collector is a slip fit.


B

[Brad Roberts]

These are the stub tubes that work with this header. If you have really STRONG suppliers and access to equipment... use stainless and TIG everything.

B

[Brad Roberts]

This is a stainless Y pipe that we used on 911/930 turbo systems.


B

[Brad Roberts]

I would also look into buying these V-band setups for ease of installation. Burns Stainless sells them.


B

[machina]

Just a heads up to the STF.

They have an area just for blown TI & TIV.

http://shoptalkforums.com/viewforum.php?f=3

[Aaron Cox]

brad, how much does a euro race header cost?

[jwalters]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) Good info Brad---I was actually already thinking about the V-bands. I work with them everyday on my jets--absolutely seal tight and sooo easy to use. Killer!!!!!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Engman]

Bradbert is right. It is a small market, be sure to include your time in the cost. I had to have a special die made for the inner long kits due to the length and radius of the bend I wanted. Cost some bucks up front. Good fixtures and design are key elements of a good product. It is not any good if you cannot repeatedly make the parts fit the same every time.
That being said I would think that there is a definate market for this. If you can make a kit that is fairly strighforward there is a market.


M

[jwalters]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) Man thanks there Engmann... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) But don't get me wrong, making money is good, lord knows a military pay is not the greatest, just rewarding work---and if I can do something to stir the market and the type IV motor to the level it deserves---well---would you rather sell 10 at a hundred or a 1000 at twenty???? I know there are not many of these wonder cars left, but I do know that the ones who truely cherish a drivers car, thirty+ yrs old, and able to spank a corvette ( which I did in my falling apart 72--those that live in So FL knows about the exit ramp from the turnpike to 595,,,welllll, lets just say my tires were not squeaking yet, running fifth @ 4900 rpm, and saw him heading to the "k" wall sideways in my rearview,,not that I advocate this type of behavior, it is dangerous and foolish, but I just had to spank him) those owners know what they have........but that is just me talking and in no way am I advocating the same from anyone else....rock on Engmann---keep our chassis from falling apart around us!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Brando]

I'm curious... If you can make the adapters and such (all exhaust-hardware) where would us bolt-on-turboers get the kits for the induction part? Or would you make that side as well? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[Brad Roberts]

Aaron,

That header with muffler setup runs 525$ Your cost is *different*


B

[Brad Roberts]

Turbo piping. I have a VW drag racer in LA that makes a ton of bad ass stuff for "them" The plan is to work out a design with him (if/when I get time) I have always thought there was a market for tubro T4 stuff.


B

[jwalters]

I'm curious... If you can make the adapters and such (all exhaust-hardware) where would us bolt-on-turboers get the kits for the induction part? Or would you make that side as well? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif) Brando, the great thing about this is: the type 1 guys already have all that figured out. CB performance ( and many others) already sell the induction pieces to fit either a single weber or duals.. Which is the only way this would work, ( unless you shell out the bucks for the CB dual fuel injection units) You are talking less than 150 bucks for all the equipment. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Bleyseng]

I would love a bolt on induction kit that fits the OEM setup so all you need is a replacement ECU and a few other FI parts. Who wants to turbo witha carb....

Geoff

[jwalters]

I would love a bolt on induction kit that fits the OEM setup so all you need is a replacement ECU and a few other FI parts. Who wants to turbo witha carb....

Geoff

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) Well, no-body makes any kind of upgrade for a stock FI setup. Period. The stock FI is late 60's technology-----it just cannot be done. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

As far as carbs go---when I ditched my FI setup I got a verified 28 hp more on the chassis dyno---28 REAR WHEEL HP!

Look at a vws mag, you are sure to see a single sidedraft carb turbo system spitting out upwards of 250+ hp----SINGLE CARB! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)

One of the latest editions of HVW's shows 2.2 liter cb performance fuel injected turbo terrors crunching out 335 HP!!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

Carbs are cheap (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) and make prodigious power with very good fuel economy to boot (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) ( my 1.7 gets 42-43 mpg in supercruise mode)

A stock FI setup just is not going to cut the mustard with anything more than a freer flowing intake and exhaust along with one of the smallest cams made for the car ( just a gnats ass above stock)

But now lets talk about space: more importantly, the space in your engine compartment that is fully cluttered with the stock FI setup. When you go to duals, all that which you cannot see now, is suddenly made open, clean, and extremely easy to work on.

So that is why-------Questions?????? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

[lapuwali]

There are LOTS of upgrades for the stock EFI. All you need is a aftermarket ECU and a couple of sensors. The injectors and plumbing (fuel and air) can all be used as is. Use a MAP sensor that reads up to 200-250 kPa and you're in business with a turbo.

Fuel injection itself is 1930s technology, and the injectors used in electronic systems are all 60s technology even on the newest systems. Only the sensors and the ECU have changed much in the last 40 years. The sensors are anywhere from $200 to free (junkyard parts will work), and the ECU can be had for $3000 for a high-end unit down to $200 for a homebuilt system. A typical price will be $750-1000 for a pretty complete setup.

I agree with Bleyseng. No one wants a turbo with a carb given the currently available technology. EFI is simply way too flexible to ignore, and makes building a safe and powerful and economical turbo system much easier than a turbo carb setup. This goes triple if you're using an ECU that does spark control, too.