Rear Sway Bar: Yes or No, AX gurus... come forth Options

[Aaron Cox]

hey guys... my car tracks very nice. have 19mm torsion bars up front, 23mm tarett swaybar up front, 140 lbs springs, and konis up front/bilsteins in rear.

what does adding a STOCK rear swaybar do for me?
to compensate for the rear bar, would i dial in MORE front bar?

cant seem to get it right in my head (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

[Brad Roberts]

Adding a rear bar is the equivalent of adding more rear spring rate. I'm REALLY surprised that your combo works without understeer. The Tarret bar with stock torsion bars and 140's is what appears to work best for sticky tire'd 914's (with those parts) I run rear bars because I *may* need more rear spring rate and I dont want to have to change the rear springs for every event. It is VERY easy to pop a link off the rear bar if need be.

I'm betting you have the Tarret set on full soft.


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[Aaron Cox]

I'm betting you have the Tarret set on full soft.


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right again.....
and koni reds set at half to full stiff

so if i add a rear bar, put front bar on full stiff?

[Brad Roberts]

Right now you have NO adjustment. Adding a rear bar will allow you to dial in more front bar if need be.


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[Aaron Cox]

Right now you have NO adjustment. Adding a rear bar will allow you to dial in more front bar if need be.


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hmmmm (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

rear bar makes it oversteer right?

[Brad Roberts]

General easy rule of thumb:

If the front is loose.. tighten the rear (tighten rear bar or add more spring rate)

If the rear is loose tighten the front (add more front bar or increase torsion bar size.

I could run 19mm bars on all my cars if I wanted to run 26mm torsion bars. I prefer not to "spring" the car so heavy and let larger sway bars handle the roll control. The adjustable bars allow me to dial the car in for each event without changing torsion bars or rear springs rates.


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[Aaron Cox]

thanks for the insight B,

looks like i'll install a stock rear bar..and play with the front bar (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

[Brad Roberts]

Dont get messed up. Stick with: loose in front tighten rear... loose in rear tighten front.

There is a cross over point... but it is not important. It will just screw yor head up thinking about it.


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[Aaron Cox]

Dont get messed up. Stick with: loose in front tighten rear... loose in rear tighten front.

There is a cross over point... but it is not important. It will just screw yor head up thinking about it.


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last question..i PROMISE (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

adding a rear bar makes the rear looser right?

thats all my cognative ability (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Brad Roberts]

I want you to think the other way: It will tighten the front. Effectively it *will* loosen the rear but ONLY because the front now has more grip.


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[Aaron Cox]

I want you to think the other way: It will tighten the front. Effectively it *will* loosen the rear but ONLY because the front now has more grip.


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ok.. makes sense.

im just a grasshoppa in the world of performance driving and suspension tuning.

thanks brad. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

[Brad Roberts]

Now you understand how I can 31mm sway bars in cars with stock torsion bars. The cars actually still ride nice going down the road.


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[Aaron Cox]

got it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)

cool..more food for thought (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Brad Roberts]

You want to adjust. 99% of the "old guy's" out there just drive and compensate with the gas pedal. This works great for them, but it may have taken them 15-20 years to get to that point. Once a driver understands what his/her car is doing they will become better drivers faster. Understanding what needs to be adjusted is even better.


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[J P Stein]

I agree with everything Brad says & will continue to do so till the evening of 22 March.......after that, we'll see (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Trekkor]

31mm sway bars

Weeeee!

Love 31mm

[skline]

I have driven 914's with and without sway bars, I have watched cars with only front bars and heavy springs, I personally, will never own a 914 without front and rear bars. I installed them on the Chalon as it came with nothing, I went with a 23mm front adjustable and a stock rear bar. I am not sure how it is going to handle yet but give me another week or so and I will let you know. I know my little S-10 truck handles awesome and it has front and rear bars and Bilsteins all around.

[Aaron Cox]

scott..our 'chat' prompted this thread. i need a new trunk floor pan anyway.. ill just get ones with the mounts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

thanks scott/brad

[Joseph Mills]

hey guys... my car tracks very nice. have 19mm torsion bars up front, 23mm tarett swaybar up front, 140 lbs springs, and konis up front/bilsteins in rear.

With that large a bar in the front and 140# springs in the rear, I'm surprised the handling is "balanced".

I'm not a guru, but when my car had a similar combination, it suffered from extreme understeer (especially for AX).

I progressed to 180#, 200#, and finally 250# to achieve the rotation I was looking for.

I am running 8X15 wheels in the rear with 225/50s, so that may explain why I had to go to 250# springs to get the rear loose. When these tires wear out, I'll be looking to swap out for some 7X15s if anyone's interested.

Oops... got off topic. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I suggest you install that rear swaybar for sure. If after awhile, you sense it's an "improvement", you might consider going to a stiffer rear spring. While the rear bar will add some increase in spring rate, it may add wheel spin in turns that you won't find satisfactory.

[Brad Roberts]

IF.. you have a good front bar... the car will stay FLAT in the corners and not lift the inside rear wheel causing wheel spin.


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