Rebel Bushing Install, also yet another reason I dont let "pro" shops touch my cars Options

[JamesM]

I have never really documented the work I do on my cars, but figure this might be a good place to start as I have not seen too many people out there running these Rebel Racing Bushings.

Start with a little back story:

A long time ago, in a state far far away... or at least as far left as you can go on the map. 13 or so years ago, before I did much work on my own cars I had some failing front bushings replaced with poly ones by a local alignment shot. They were ok aside from squeaking all the time, but then I really didn't push my car to the limit on a regular basis back then. Fast forward to today, been autocrossing for 5 or so years, always felt like the car has pushed really bad in the tighter stuff and always seems to lose traction in the front WAY to easy under breaking. Came to the conclusion that a lot of it is probably the poly bushings in the front sucking major @$$ and binding all the time. I had not planned on doing this upgrade this year but a failed rear bushing meant I had to get an alignment anyways so I figured might as well just do them all.

Decided to go with the Rebel front setup as I like the design and don't like having to lube bushings all the time.


Crapy phone pics to come...

[JamesM]

Snag #1:
Never fun to have a sway bar mounting tab break off in your hand 1 week before the next autox. Thankfully I have a spare control arm, and it even has a decent balljoint.

I suspect this was due to a combination of the mechanic who installed the polys losing the spacer for the end link on this side, combined with the amount of force required to move the stuck control arms, and also the fact that I had adjusted the swaybar to full soft in an attempt to compensate. Angle +force = SNAP

[JamesM]

*sigh* really? This is how ONE of the control arms looked when it came off. I could understand maybe if they put them both on backwards, but just one side?!! Half @$$ crap like this is why no one touches my cars but me anymore

Also want to point out that these are poly bushings, they don't flex like rubber, so I would expect to be able to get at least some movement out of the control arm when I apply force. Stood as much weight on it as I could without shifting the car of the jackstands and NOTHING, no movement at all. think that pretty much confirmed I may have not been getting as much as I could out of my front suspension.

[SirAndy]

*sigh* really?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif)

[JamesM]

The poly bushings dont soften under heat like rubber, they liquify, so at least they came off easy after taking a map torch to the housing. The spare arm I used had rubber which also came off pretty easy but did require a bit of twisting around the arm.

[JamesM]

So, this was just going to be a quick job of swapping the bushings, and plan on powdercoating the arms this winter, but as I had to replace one of the arms, the patina didnt match between the 2, and I can be a bit obssessive....

Figured I could a least protect them a bit for now and make them match
Clean & sand:


Primer:


Paint:
was going to get some flat black but I had some left over Rustoleum "Hammered" that I just love the look of.

[JamesM]

Before and After



Races installed

[JamesM]

Purdy!
Install was quite a bit easier then disassembly. JB weld the races to the arms and the races just slide in the housings. Where I had ZERO movement with the polys, these things are like sex lube on ice! Completely dry as well, zero grease needed ever so I don't expect their performance is going to change much over time as I don't have to worry about grease drying up.

[JamesM]

Should be able to finish getting everything back together tonight. Hopefully the forecast was wrong and it doesent rain for the next 3 days as I really want to try these out. I am somewhat concerned that I will need to wind up going with bigger torsion bars now as i think the polys were massively increaseing the stiffness in the front end. Either way I am super excited to see how they feel as I know they will be an improvement.

Something I want to point out on the poly bushings, these were the older, soft compund polys, installed with a hammer by a bunch of idiots. I actually installed Erics polys as a replacement in my rear control arms, and when properly fitted for both the diamater of the control arm axle, as well as its length, then lubed with 508 copper antiseize, they move freely and are so far quiet, so I think it depends a lot on how they are installed.

[914_teener]

Should be able to finish getting everything back together tonight. Hopefully the forecast was wrong and it doesent rain for the next 3 days as I really want to try these out. I am somewhat concerned that I will need to wind up going with bigger torsion bars now as i think the polys were massively increaseing the stiffness in the front end. Either way I am super excited to see how they feel as I know they will be an improvement.

Something I want to point out on the poly bushings, these were the older, soft compund polys, installed with a hammer by a bunch of idiots. I actually installed Erics polys as a replacement in my rear control arms, and when properly fitted for both the diamater of the control arm axle, as well as its length, then lubed with 508 copper antiseize, they move freely and are so far quiet, so I think it depends a lot on how they are installed.

Can you explain what properly fitted for the length and diameter means........I have to do this one and want to get it right. I haven't seen a thread that pictorially shows this.......for the rear bushings ....I mean.

[Jeff Hail]

The poly bushings dont soften under heat like rubber, they liquify, so at least they came off easy after taking a map torch to the housing. The spare arm I used had rubber which also came off pretty easy but did require a bit of twisting around the arm.

Next time put the smaller tube on the control arm in the pipe jaw of your vise, not the flats. The flats will oval the torsion bar tubes. The control arm won't roll on you this way.

[JamesM]

The poly bushings dont soften under heat like rubber, they liquify, so at least they came off easy after taking a map torch to the housing. The spare arm I used had rubber which also came off pretty easy but did require a bit of twisting around the arm.

Next time put the smaller tube on the control arm in the pipe jaw of your vise, not the flats. The flats will oval the torsion bar tubes. The control arm won't roll on you this way.

Thats a good idea, this was not clamped down hard at all though so I think i am ok. Didnt need to lock it down hard as the polys slid right off once they melted and the rubber ones I just rotatated in the direction where the control arm was supported by its cross beam on the vise. Supprisingly little force was need, especally compared to how tough the rears were to get out.

[JamesM]

Should be able to finish getting everything back together tonight. Hopefully the forecast was wrong and it doesent rain for the next 3 days as I really want to try these out. I am somewhat concerned that I will need to wind up going with bigger torsion bars now as i think the polys were massively increaseing the stiffness in the front end. Either way I am super excited to see how they feel as I know they will be an improvement.

Something I want to point out on the poly bushings, these were the older, soft compund polys, installed with a hammer by a bunch of idiots. I actually installed Erics polys as a replacement in my rear control arms, and when properly fitted for both the diamater of the control arm axle, as well as its length, then lubed with 508 copper antiseize, they move freely and are so far quiet, so I think it depends a lot on how they are installed.

Can you explain what properly fitted for the length and diameter means........I have to do this one and want to get it right. I haven't seen a thread that pictorially shows this.......for the rear bushings ....I mean.

Ill see if I can do this without pictures but, the first thing that needs to be fit is the inner bore of the bushing to the control arm shaft. Eric actually did this part for me while I was at his shop, it basically involves honeing out the bore of the bushing until it is a correct fit on the shaft (you should be able to slide them on by hand) The idea with these is that they rotate around the shaft (unlike the rubber that flexes) The bushings should be cool while testing on the shaft as they expand when warm and also the fit needs to be tested with the bushings and shaft in the control arm.

The second fitting is the exposed face of the bushing once it is installed in the shaft. What happens if this is not shaved down to a hair under the length of the rod is that the bushing gets pinched between the control arm and the mounting ears. This is one thing that i dont entirely like about the polys in the rear is that the busing face needs to slide against the mounting ear (which it was not originally designed to do) I made sure that the ears were as clean and flat as possible and also added lube to that area as well. It looks like the elephant racing kit uses a large washer on the inner face of the mounting ear as a race, i am guessing they recognized this area as a problem as well.

You need to be real carefull with both of these fittings as just a little to much movement in the bushing creates a pretty noticeable movement of the control arm.

[Eric_Shea]

Looking good James. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

[jmill]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif)

Rebel has some cool stuff.

[914_teener]

Should be able to finish getting everything back together tonight. Hopefully the forecast was wrong and it doesent rain for the next 3 days as I really want to try these out. I am somewhat concerned that I will need to wind up going with bigger torsion bars now as i think the polys were massively increaseing the stiffness in the front end. Either way I am super excited to see how they feel as I know they will be an improvement.

Something I want to point out on the poly bushings, these were the older, soft compund polys, installed with a hammer by a bunch of idiots. I actually installed Erics polys as a replacement in my rear control arms, and when properly fitted for both the diamater of the control arm axle, as well as its length, then lubed with 508 copper antiseize, they move freely and are so far quiet, so I think it depends a lot on how they are installed.

Can you explain what properly fitted for the length and diameter means........I have to do this one and want to get it right. I haven't seen a thread that pictorially shows this.......for the rear bushings ....I mean.

Ill see if I can do this without pictures but, the first thing that needs to be fit is the inner bore of the bushing to the control arm shaft. Eric actually did this part for me while I was at his shop, it basically involves honeing out the bore of the bushing until it is a correct fit on the shaft (you should be able to slide them on by hand) The idea with these is that they rotate around the shaft (unlike the rubber that flexes) The bushings should be cool while testing on the shaft as they expand when warm and also the fit needs to be tested with the bushings and shaft in the control arm.

The second fitting is the exposed face of the bushing once it is installed in the shaft. What happens if this is not shaved down to a hair under the length of the rod is that the bushing gets pinched between the control arm and the mounting ears. This is one thing that i dont entirely like about the polys in the rear is that the busing face needs to slide against the mounting ear (which it was not originally designed to do) I made sure that the ears were as clean and flat as possible and also added lube to that area as well. It looks like the elephant racing kit uses a large washer on the inner face of the mounting ear as a race, i am guessing they recognized this area as a problem as well.

You need to be real carefull with both of these fittings as just a little to much movement in the bushing creates a pretty noticeable movement of the control arm.

Ok James and thanks nice work. No hijack meant but here are a few pics. I did get these from Eric and did speak with him briefly on the subject......Utah is a beautiful place but I wished he lived out here!
Here are a couple of pics. So what you mean is that the outside bushing....the side of the arm that mounts nearest the long...should be ground down so that the Shorr facing of the inner shaft is flush with the outside of the bushing. The inner shaft or mounting pivot is a tight fit cold...but I can move it by hand through the bushings with very firm pressure. Any comments by your good self are welcome.

Rob



Some pics:


The inner swing arm side. The inner pivot is flush to slightly offset from the bushing. I am assuming this is right.





The next is the outer side of the swing arm. This is what looks wrong to me. From the conversations I have had with folks....this also needs to be flush with the pivot shaft. Meaning...I need to shave the bushing down so that the pivot shaft will cinch against the mount.





Big thanks to Bruce Stone for the swing arm parts....shameless plug.

[914_teener]

Another view of the swing arm bushing:






any positive comments are appreciated.

[Jeff Hail]

Put a large flat washer on both sides with a large enough hole to clear the pivot shaft diameter on both sides. Torque both sides down and let it sit over night. See if the bushing will compress a bit. Hell bolt it in the car. Remember its a new bushing not a bearing so some interference is expected. It will compress.

The factory always recommended installing the trailing arm horizontal to the car not drooped (hanging down) and then tightening the pivot shaft bolts.

[Jeff Hail]

Funny.. I just noticed this under the banner.

"This site is not affiliated with Porsche in any way".

Hilarious! Did Shea come up up with that disclaimer? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

[JamesM]

Should be able to finish getting everything back together tonight. Hopefully the forecast was wrong and it doesent rain for the next 3 days as I really want to try these out. I am somewhat concerned that I will need to wind up going with bigger torsion bars now as i think the polys were massively increaseing the stiffness in the front end. Either way I am super excited to see how they feel as I know they will be an improvement.

Something I want to point out on the poly bushings, these were the older, soft compund polys, installed with a hammer by a bunch of idiots. I actually installed Erics polys as a replacement in my rear control arms, and when properly fitted for both the diamater of the control arm axle, as well as its length, then lubed with 508 copper antiseize, they move freely and are so far quiet, so I think it depends a lot on how they are installed.

Can you explain what properly fitted for the length and diameter means........I have to do this one and want to get it right. I haven't seen a thread that pictorially shows this.......for the rear bushings ....I mean.

Ill see if I can do this without pictures but, the first thing that needs to be fit is the inner bore of the bushing to the control arm shaft. Eric actually did this part for me while I was at his shop, it basically involves honeing out the bore of the bushing until it is a correct fit on the shaft (you should be able to slide them on by hand) The idea with these is that they rotate around the shaft (unlike the rubber that flexes) The bushings should be cool while testing on the shaft as they expand when warm and also the fit needs to be tested with the bushings and shaft in the control arm.

The second fitting is the exposed face of the bushing once it is installed in the shaft. What happens if this is not shaved down to a hair under the length of the rod is that the bushing gets pinched between the control arm and the mounting ears. This is one thing that i dont entirely like about the polys in the rear is that the busing face needs to slide against the mounting ear (which it was not originally designed to do) I made sure that the ears were as clean and flat as possible and also added lube to that area as well. It looks like the elephant racing kit uses a large washer on the inner face of the mounting ear as a race, i am guessing they recognized this area as a problem as well.

You need to be real carefull with both of these fittings as just a little to much movement in the bushing creates a pretty noticeable movement of the control arm.

Ok James and thanks nice work. No hijack meant but here are a few pics. I did get these from Eric and did speak with him briefly on the subject......Utah is a beautiful place but I wished he lived out here!
Here are a couple of pics. So what you mean is that the outside bushing....the side of the arm that mounts nearest the long...should be ground down so that the Shorr facing of the inner shaft is flush with the outside of the bushing. The inner shaft or mounting pivot is a tight fit cold...but I can move it by hand through the bushings with very firm pressure. Any comments by your good self are welcome.

Rob



Some pics:


The inner swing arm side. The inner pivot is flush to slightly offset from the bushing. I am assuming this is right.





The next is the outer side of the swing arm. This is what looks wrong to me. From the conversations I have had with folks....this also needs to be flush with the pivot shaft. Meaning...I need to shave the bushing down so that the pivot shaft will cinch against the mount.





Big thanks to Bruce Stone for the swing arm parts....shameless plug.

Yup, just take a little (even amount) off both sides until you are pretty much flush. Go slow though and test fit often, there is a very thin line between not binding and to much off. I went just a hair too far on one side and that less then a mm gap is pretty noticeable with everything installed. I then cheated and used a ring of gasket maker on the back side of that face to make up the difference, maybe not the best solution but I am not sure at this point how long they are going to stay in the car.

Eric also recomends jb welding them into the contorl arm and installing zerks, I have not yet, again because I am not sure how long they will be in there.


Maybe Eric can add some more tips here, all my info came from him.