 Jake Raby: Cooling system testing, reichert tuning? |
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| Aaron Cox |
 Nov 28 2004, 01:48 PM
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#1
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Professional Lawn Dart  Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California  |
title says it all, have you tried the horizontal fan system from reichert? at the autocross, saw a guy running this setup on a 2.7L type IV monster...
looked cool...but does it cool? |
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| Elliot_Cannon |
Nov 28 2004, 01:54 PM
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#2
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Senior Member Group: Retired Members Posts: 1,922 Joined: 26-March 03 From: Orange County Ca Member No.: 480 Region Association: None |
Isn't that the one that goes from a verticle pulley to a horizontal pulley? If I remember rite, the old Corvairs had one like that and used to throw belts at high RPM.
Cheers, Elliot |
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| Aaron Cox |
Nov 28 2004, 02:01 PM
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#3
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
thats what ive been reading....
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| Carrera916 |
Nov 28 2004, 03:10 PM
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 292 Joined: 9-February 03 From: Pleasanton, CA Member No.: 273 |
Reichert fan? The electric one? Do you have a website on that? I want to know more about that!
I'm not sure if its the same one but I saw an article about the electric hortizontal fan on type 4 engine couple years ago and it looked really neat but nothing close to the old 908 - 917 appearance wise. The picture did not show the innards of the shroud (cover over the fan), just the outside. It look very much like the American car electric fan that you find behind the radiator. I know the cooling would work, only if the design of baffles or plates that direct air flow from aft fan to the cylinder/head cooling fin are equal to both sides, then it'll do the job. What I really liked about the electric fan set up, I can use the thermosensor switch to turn on the fan when needed and probably in two speeds. This would be ideal when you want the engine to warm up faster (especially in the cold days) and keep the needed flow steady by allowing the switch to determine which speed to turn on. Just my .02 opinion. Jakes' DTM is a fantastic one based on reading / viewing his materials and it's main function is to get the air down in middle as well split the proper amount of cooling air to both sides of the engine/cyl. head areas which I felt it could be done with the electric fan. I just like the hortizonal fan appearance like the early P racecars! j |
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| Aaron Cox |
Nov 28 2004, 03:13 PM
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#5
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
belt drive... crank pullry to 90 degree pully to fan and back again
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| nebreitling |
Nov 28 2004, 03:14 PM
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#6
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Member Emeritus Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-March 03 From: San Francisco Member No.: 478 |
i agree! it seems like an electric fan (or two; one for each side) would be the trick. no belts to pull or throw, run independent of rpm, easy to rig a thermostat to..
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| Aaron Cox |
Nov 28 2004, 03:18 PM
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#7
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
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| machina |
Nov 28 2004, 03:29 PM
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#8
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Advanced Member Group: Benefactors Posts: 2,030 Joined: 21-June 03 From: Miami Beach, FL Member No.: 848  |
here is one electric setup I have seen.
don't think it worked too well. Attached image(s) 
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| machina |
Nov 28 2004, 03:34 PM
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#9
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Advanced Member Group: Benefactors Posts: 2,030 Joined: 21-June 03 From: Miami Beach, FL Member No.: 848 |
more found...
I have also seen a rig with one big electric fan on top of a fg shroud. I don't think any cool as well or as evenly as the Jake's DTM. Attached thumbnail(s) 
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| Dominic |
Nov 28 2004, 05:03 PM
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#10
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Dominic Group: Members Posts: 992 Joined: 14-January 03 From: Vacaville, CA Member No.: 149 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Carrera916 @ Nov 28 2004, 01:10 PM) I know the cooling would work, only if the design of baffles or plates that direct air flow from aft fan to the cylinder/head cooling fin are equal to both sides, then it'll do the job. What I really liked about the electric fan set up, I can use the thermosensor switch to turn on the fan when needed and probably in two speeds. This would be ideal when you want the engine to warm up faster (especially in the cold days) and keep the needed flow steady by allowing the switch to determine which speed to turn on. Just my .02 opinion. Carerra916, You and I are on the same wavelength about the electric fan set up. I am in the process of having one made that looks like the one in the picture below, but I will be using a high end Spal 12" fan (i'd like to ensure that it will work when needed). I'll just be driving an alternator off of my crank pulley, so I'm thinking this should free up some HP. If it works I'll let everyone know. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Attached image(s) 
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| Aaron Cox |
Nov 28 2004, 05:13 PM
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#11
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
wheres the oil cooler?
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| nebreitling |
Nov 28 2004, 05:16 PM
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#12
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Member Emeritus Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-March 03 From: San Francisco Member No.: 478 |
QUOTE(Aaron Cox @ Nov 28 2004, 03:13 PM) wheres the oil cooler? in the front of the car, maybe? i'm interested in this set up.... |
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| Aaron Cox |
Nov 28 2004, 05:18 PM
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#13
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
whos making the shroud?
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| Brett W |
Nov 28 2004, 08:31 PM
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#14
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,856 Joined: 17-September 03 From: huntsville, al Member No.: 1,169 Region Association: None 
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An electric system could work just fine. Wayne Baker's car ran three of the fans used on the 911 to cool the thermal reactors after shut down and did fine with that system. Rumor has that the Horizontal electric causes number 3 or 1 to run hot. A fellow that was running one said he had to reshape the shroud to fix the problem. That is the only fellow I have seen running one though.
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| Jake Raby |
Nov 29 2004, 09:19 AM
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#15
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
I did not test the Riechert Horizontal system.
I have used one but could never keep the belts on for very long at a time.. It uses the same fan as the vertical 911 unit and no directional vanes or deflectors, so I don't see it being much of an improvement over the normal 911 style... Buy one and I'll test it. After exerting over 20K of my money in cooling system tests -I'm done.. |
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| nein14 |
Nov 29 2004, 11:00 AM
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#16
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 838 Joined: 6-February 03 From: USA Member No.: 262 |
I think mikez was running a set of those dual electric fans on his 356.
I spoke with the guy that was making them , he said the ones he tested worked very well. They would not rob any HP from the motor. |
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| Jake Raby |
Nov 29 2004, 11:39 AM
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#17
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
I don't see it happening- they lack pressure for sure and they don't have any directional vanes...
I'd like to see how extensive his testing was, and what he tested against. If someone has some, I will really test them and post the results on my site... |
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| Mark Henry |
Nov 29 2004, 02:23 PM
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#18
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
Jake is right on this one, those electric fans cannot deliver the pressures of the stock T4 or T1 fans.
I'd like to see the head temps...all 4 cyls at once. The flat fan looks like a PITA and would have the same issues as the 911 shroud. I'm a big one for the KISS rule and that fails the rule big time. BTW the DTM has the directional vanes or deflectors that Jake is talking about. He's done just a tad of testing in this area...very few have the understanding of how important a proper cooling system is to the life of an engine. It's more than just a fan. Use a DTM...or keep it stock...or stay home! |
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| Jake Raby |
Nov 29 2004, 04:45 PM
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#19
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
Damn Mark...
I like your style! People put too much stock in huge amounts of airflow!! All that flow does no good unless its where it needs to be directed! |
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| Brett W |
Nov 29 2004, 05:10 PM
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#20
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,856 Joined: 17-September 03 From: huntsville, al Member No.: 1,169 Region Association: None
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What is the pressure that the factory fan puts out? I am having a discussion with someone else about the pressure ratio above and below the engine in a dynamic enviroment. They claim that the air pressure underneath the car in motion is much higher than the air pressure generated by the fan. Their theory is this causes the air to back up.
Now I realize the 914 has the flaps to generate a pressure differential under the engine, does the beetle and 911 have the same type features? |
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