COLLISION - Part 2, The insurance company Options

[tomeric914]

Some of you have probably read the thread on my client's unfortunate accident here http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=211105 and now he's into the insurance phase where they play the game, "How low can we go?"

FIRST, please do not respond to this thread with a value. Please PM me instead. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I would like to know if anyone has a similar car that has been recently appraised. If so, please PM me some information about your car and its value.

The insurance company didn't know what to value the car at and searched eBay ads to determine a value on the car. Let's suffice to say that they aren't even close.

The facts:

- My client bought the car brand new from the dealer in 1974 and has owned it for the past 39 years.

- The car is ALL original and has been garaged since new. Never driven in the winter and absolutely NO rust.

- The car has never been in an accident until now

- The odometer just turned over 50k miles

- It has is the center 3 gauge console and rear window defogger. He added the alloys after he purchased the car.

- The car will be repaired. Accepting it as totaled and the resultant salvage title is not an acceptable course of action.

Above all, thanks to those that can help!

[Spoke]

Bummer to hear about the accident. Seems like our little cars are fucking targets on the road.

My 71 was rear-ended in 2005 by a driver not paying attention.

I got all my receipts together and found For Sale prices for concourse, excellent, and good 914's and gave them to the insurance adjuster.

When the insurance adjuster came to look at the car, I had a local 356 restoration guy there to talk about the issues in repairing the 914. I also detailed the car inside and out such that it was as clean as it could be. It all paid off as I got much more than I expected for the car.

The car was salvaged as the adjuster estimated the repair to be in the 11k range which was 3k more than what they valued the car. I won't say what they gave me. Hint-hint-wink-wink.

Keep in mind that fender damage may also include suspension damage as the tire likely was hit too.

Good luck!

[ConeDodger]

Call Scott Yeaman at Yeaman Autobody in Palo Alto, CA. After the rock incident, my insurance company was also clueless but receptive. He set them straight on 914 values...

[Mblizzard]

As a question did you have regular insurance or classic car insurance? I have classic car insurance set at $15k. They will pay to fix or replace the car to that value.

All I can say is that for a car like that the value would have to blow well past my insured level. I would have to guess that there are few cars left that meet those truly astounding criteria. I think that regardless of the existing values any one my find or have, I would have to think that this car would be worth more than anything you could find published.

A super huge issue here is not only getting the car fixed but recovering the huge loss associated with the inherent diminished value of the car. If they ever go to sell the car, they can not sell that car for what is was worth before the accident. The other driver took away their ability to sell the car as an all original, never wrecked car and they have the right to recover that loss. I would think that that loss would be almost as much as the repairs! They should seek to recover that loss.

Sorry about the accident but admire their drive to fix the car.

[EdwardBlume]

If it is classic insurance and if they give you the run around, please let all of us know because a bad reputation connected to all the Porsche, PCA, and exotic enthusiasts around here would be a very bad decision on their part.

[rick 918-S]

People, never meet with an insurance appraiser without gathering all your documents first. If you think the guy with the smile and pocket protector knows anything about your classic Porsche you need a reality check.

As a former auto appraiser I'm telling you guys again. You will not meet a nicer bunch of guys but I worked with these guys. We would have meeting for up dates on procedures. I would strike up a conversation about cars and would be met with a look of puzzled bewilderment. Most of the auto appraisers are collage educated guys that got a job in the insurance industry. They operate software that is generic. They are under pressure from management to go out and write an estimate on the spot and hand a guy a check and close their file. They are scored on their efficiency and volume of closed files. Everything goes into a company data base including all offers to settle and conversations.

Most appraisers would welcome your research. Their source for classic cars is limited to online news paper sources, online classified searches, ebay etc. Look for the high end dealers, send Craig at Camp 914 an email and come up with real world comps.

[tomeric914]

Call Scott Yeaman at Yeaman Autobody in Palo Alto, CA. After the rock incident, my insurance company was also clueless but receptive. He set them straight on 914 values...

Thanks Rob. Will do.

As a question did you have regular insurance or classic car insurance? I have classic car insurance set at $15k. They will pay to fix or replace the car to that value.

A super huge issue here is not only getting the car fixed but recovering the huge loss associated with the inherent diminished value of the car. If they ever go to sell the car, they can not sell that car for what is was worth before the accident. The other driver took away their ability to sell the car as an all original, never wrecked car and they have the right to recover that loss. I would think that that loss would be almost as much as the repairs! They should seek to recover that loss.

He has classic car insurance with a fixed value on the car but the loss is being covered by the offender's insurance.

You nailed it with the diminished value side of the equation.

Most appraisers would welcome your research. Their source for classic cars is limited to online news paper sources, online classified searches, ebay etc. Look for the high end dealers, send Craig at Camp 914 an email and come up with real world comps.

Thanks Rick. I'll have him call Craig.

[patrick3000]

Most states regulate the distance that an insurance company can use for comparable values. Check with your state insurance commissioniors office for the regulations. This should eliminate most ebay listings as comps.

Based on the ownership and condition of this car he may have a claim for diminished value in addition to the actual damage. If you are not familiar with a diminished value claim a quick google search would be advisable.

If you still do not receive a satisfactory settlement file a complaint with the state insurance commission, this usually results in a complete change of attitude from the insurance company.

Lastly you are under no obligation to settle with the at fault insurance company, if you have full coverage you can settle with your insurance company and have them deal with the other company.

Best of luck in getting the car repaired.

[GeorgeRud]

Try the valuation guide at Hagerty.com. Shows values for various conditions of cars, and also shows price trends over time.

After seeing the picture of the classic 911S that had to have the top cut off to remove the injured driver, somehow the value of the car starts to become secondary. It still hurts to have your 'baby' injured, and I hope the insurance company will make things right for you.

[tomeric914]

If you still do not receive a satisfactory settlement file a complaint with the state insurance commission, this usually results in a complete change of attitude from the insurance company.

Thanks Karl!

[rick 918-S]

If you still do not receive a satisfactory settlement file a complaint with the state insurance commission, this usually results in a complete change of attitude from the insurance company.

Thanks Karl!

Wrong. As long as the appraiser made you an offer to settle within the set guidelines of the state and they document the file ( as they will ) they simply respond with a letter to the commissioner, show the good faith attempt to settle and that's the end of it. The commerce dept. is always brought up as a threat. We never worried about them. Just like someone saying they are going to get a lawyer. Great! They will be reasonable party in the room and we will get the claim settled. Like! The commerce dept. is for settling issues like a company that fails to respond in a timely manor, complete a full investigation and move to making a decision as to their position with regard to liability and exposure. Bad faith.

If your friend has insurance tell him to settle with his carrier. They will pursue the offending party and very likely get back your deductible as part of the settlement. I did this all the time.

But still! get your comps first!

[Drums66]

Always have an updated appraisal, on any classic car (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

[rnellums]

People, never meet with an insurance appraiser without gathering all your documents first. If you think the guy with the smile and pocket protector knows anything about your classic Porsche you need a reality check.

As a former auto appraiser I'm telling you guys again. You will not meet a nicer bunch of guys but I worked with these guys. We would have meeting for up dates on procedures. I would strike up a conversation about cars and would be met with a look of puzzled bewilderment. Most of the auto appraisers are collage educated guys that got a job in the insurance industry. They operate software that is generic. They are under pressure from management to go out and write an estimate on the spot and hand a guy a check and close their file. They are scored on their efficiency and volume of closed files. Everything goes into a company data base including all offers to settle and conversations.

Most appraisers would welcome your research. Their source for classic cars is limited to online news paper sources, online classified searches, ebay etc. Look for the high end dealers, send Craig at Camp 914 an email and come up with real world comps.

I did this when my black car got totaled with some of the best ads I could find, and a photobook full of pictures of the restoration of my car. The insurance came back and gave me essentially the average of the ads I have given him. To the tune of north of 15k.

[rick 918-S]

People, never meet with an insurance appraiser without gathering all your documents first. If you think the guy with the smile and pocket protector knows anything about your classic Porsche you need a reality check.

As a former auto appraiser I'm telling you guys again. You will not meet a nicer bunch of guys but I worked with these guys. We would have meeting for up dates on procedures. I would strike up a conversation about cars and would be met with a look of puzzled bewilderment. Most of the auto appraisers are collage educated guys that got a job in the insurance industry. They operate software that is generic. They are under pressure from management to go out and write an estimate on the spot and hand a guy a check and close their file. They are scored on their efficiency and volume of closed files. Everything goes into a company data base including all offers to settle and conversations.

Most appraisers would welcome your research. Their source for classic cars is limited to online news paper sources, online classified searches, ebay etc. Look for the high end dealers, send Craig at Camp 914 an email and come up with real world comps.

I did this when my black car got totaled with some of the best ads I could find, and a photobook full of pictures of the restoration of my car. The insurance came back and gave me essentially the average of the ads I have given him. To the tune of north of 15k.

That is how it's done. You need three of the highest comps you can find that are similar to your car. Take the three, add them together and divide by three to get an average value of your car.

[tomeric914]

That is how it's done. You need three of the highest comps you can find that are similar to your car. Take the three, add them together and divide by three to get an average value of your car.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed! I was able to come up with more than 3 similar comps and referrals to body shops familiar with the 914 to go back to the insurance company with more relevant information. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif)