More rust repair...how far should I go?, for a 75 driver, not race, not CW??? Options

[cha914]

Ok,

Its time to start on my Dad's "nice" 914...its a 75 with the strange gold color option and white interior. It was a 1.8, but we yanked that out and are putting in a 2.0 that has "all the goodies" but thats for another thread...

The car has been basically sitting for the last 2+ years, the last one outside (I know, I know)...we finally pulled the rockers and interior this weekend for a full rust inspection...and it has more than I thought it did...big supprise I am sure.

So, this car is going to be a driver, i want to fix the rust as fast as possible, but I don't want to be a DAPO for the next guy, so how do I fix this rust without doing a full resto? It has the beginings of long rot, but its not bad yet...ok...here are the pics:

The overall picture:

[cha914]

It obviously needs a new battery tray, plus the hole in the firewall, the inner fender, and the hole in the middle is the top of the Long (ugh)...can I just cut the top of the long off spray some rust killer in there and close it up with good metal?

[cha914]

Here is the only soft part of the outer long...other than the circled spot the long held up to the screwdriver test:

[cha914]

Here is a shot of the inner fender rust above the long, anybody welded these inner areas without removing the fender? I would rather not do that if I don't have to?

[cha914]

Here is the firewall hole from inside the pass compartment...yes that is glass in the picture, there was all kinds of glass behind the back pad...found out the car was in a fender bender that broke out the rear glass at some point...the new glass was barly held in, which I am sure contributed to rot at the bottom of the floor pan (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[cha914]

And here is the above mentioned rot at the floor pan and firewall intersection. I was able to jab a screwdriver in this area to make the circled hole, after doing so the hole drained water for a good half hour...I know there is a cavity between the inner and outer firewall, but didn't there was anything in there to hold water? ideas?

[cha914]

So, what would you guys do? This car is probably going to get a black interior and a color change paint job ( I know, you will hate it...bla bla bla) but it isn't my car, its my dad's and he is set on painting the car, maybe I can talk him out of it...regardless...

This car will be a driver, and will maybe be sold after my dad drives it for a while and wants something else...So, I don't want to spend my life on this car, but I don't to be THAT GUY either...

Thanks for the help:

Tony (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

[cha914]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif)

damn...I guess I forgot to say I had pics inside in the title...

either that or I should just pop rivet some carboard over the holes and call it done eh?

Tony (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)

[Rhodes71/914]

Looks like you got your work cut out for ya, wish I could give advice but rust repair is on my winter list, it will be my first.

Maybe all the rust experts have had to many (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) and aren't (IMG:style_emoticons/default/type.gif)

[Deano]

I am just finishing up a similar repair job. Mine wasn't quite as bad, but I had to do basically what I would reccomend for yours. I bought a cheap mig welder and started practicing on scraps. When I was ready to start on the car, I cut out all of the rusted metal. I then treated everything with Ospho and then Por15. I cut and bent all of my own pieces (except jack posts). It wasn't as hard as I thought and I only spent about $50 on sheet metal. The results have been better than I had hoped for. I've been at it about a month or so and I am having a blast. Already contemplating my next project.
About the welder: Everyone on this site will bash cheap gasless welders, but I have found it to be just fine for a project of this size. If I go on to do other larger projects, I may upgrade, but for $100 (on sale at harbor freight) I'm pretty happy. Hope this helps. I don't think there is any cheap "short cut" to fixing your problems without becoming the DAPO

[LvSteveH]

I’m in the same boat with a 76 I picked up as a driver. I knew it had a little rust in the hell hole, but once I pulled the interior it was obvious that it needed more attention, similar to what you have to deal with. It’s a tough call and I’m having trouble deciding how good a job to do. It’s a huge job to do it properly, or a good day of welding in reinforcement and just driving it.

I think it comes down to deciding whether it’s a disposable car or not. There is something to be said for actually being able to drive the car instead of having a perpetual project that may never see the light of day. In some respects a “driver” has a hard life and maybe these marginal cars are the best ones to actually pound miles on. I look forward to seeing everyone’s opinion on the matter.

[Deano]

Steve if your car is in similar condition, fix it! Tony's car is very fixable. Like I said, I am a self-taught welder with cheap-ass equipment and it wasn't that tough. The things that need repair in Tony's photos are easy to do and aren't structural in nature like replacing longitudinals. Don't wait, it will only get worse. It isn't hard or expensive, and pretty damn rewarding when you're done.

[mharrison]

Well, my Hell hole area is OK. The passenger side Longitudinal is soft around the jack hole and the small jack pad under the very rear of the longitudinal is off. But.......some (#*$^&% DAPO put a front clip on the car. It is NASTY. It is not structural, it is a clip from the front of the suspension up. It is barely welded. Tacked with no solid beads with some good on the interior to clean it up. Inside the fender wells it looks like one piece of stell laying on top of another. It's not welded with a seam, it's not hammered flat. It's just tacked here and there. I'm sure that the fenders are nasty metalwork and bondo under the paint. (This is 1/2 the fender on up all the way across the car.)

Should I bother with the longs with this messed up front end?

[LvSteveH]

Deano... don't take it the wrong way, but using raw sheet metal and a flux core mig is the slap it together way to fix it. I'm not saying you can't or didn't do a decent job, but it is not a back to OEM quality repair. To do it "properly" requires an enormous amount of work. Diving into the rear firewall is not for the timid. It all has to come apart to get ALL the rust that is hiding within. That being said, I think you went about it the right way, you extended the life of the car considerably, and you will have driven thousands of miles before a more intense repair ever got off the jackstands.

I have several other nicer 914 chassis's, but the one in question would make a good driver with a repair along the lines you discussed. I'm just having trouble talking myself into doing it that way as opposed to cutting open the longs and going back to spec. Part of me wants every car brought back, but, like so many others, I'm tired of working on cars all the time and not having one drivable. I do appreciate the encouragement though!

Oh, and his repairs are structural, there has been a lot of damage inside the rear of the longitudnal and in between the rear firewall.

[Deano]

If you don't do something with those "soft longs" they will eventually go. At the very least I would cut out and treat as much rust as possible and weld some strength into it. How tough do you think it would be to fix the front end issues?

[mharrison]

That's why I'm wondering if I need to take it to the can man. The "new" front end has rust all in the bottom of it. The headlight buckets look like lace. My hood is about 1/2" too short.

This front clip has SERIOUS problems.

[Deano]

Steve
I understand what you are saying, but Tony said in his original post this was going to be a driver and he didn't want to do a full restoration. When I tore into mine, I went in with the attitude that I was going to do as thorough job as I could. I cut out all of the weakened metal, ground off all of the surface rust, and treated everything within reach. I cut and bent the parts for the firewall and hellhole. There was no damage to the long other than jackpost rust. I removed the jackposts, welded additional metal in the surrounding area, and replaced the jackposts. This car may not be concourse quality, but I like to drive my car, and I'm perfectly confident in the quality of the repairs. In another 30-40 years it will probably need some attention again, hopefully it will still be on the road, thanks in part to my repairs.
No one else was responding and I was merely encouraging him to go for it and do a good job. These are not priceless cars and I don't think we need to be afraid of doing good quallity repairs ourselves.
And you are right, I misspoke when I made the non-structural comment, the one photo does show some issues with the long. Better to address them now rather than later.
Hope this post doesn't sound like I'm getting all defensive, but I want you and Tony to know I was talking about doing a good job and not just slapping it together. My repairs my not look exactly OEM, but they look pretty good, and end up covered anyway.

[LvSteveH]

We are really spoiled here on the west coast with regard to rust. Any time a car can be safely put back on the road and driven, it's a good thing. There is a point at which you just need to find a better chassis based on availability in your area. There is a thread open right now that shows just how bad a car can be, so the repairs we are looking at are minor in comparison. I'd say that for the average 914-4, if the rust can be fixed for less than $1000 parts and labor, it's probably worth fixing. You end up with a solid car and you know exactly what you have. Most 914's have some serious rust that even the owner doesn't know about, so it's not simply a matter of buying another car, because you'll just end up with new problems.

The only major thing I'd recommend is using GMAW (mig with gas) to do chassis welding. You'll find it is much easier to control the heat and the end result is much better. Flux core has it's place and I even like it for some applications, but not on a car. If you really want to have fun try Oxyfuel welding, it actually works really well, but anything flammable in the vicinity is toast...... literally. Good luck.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

[cha914]

Wow...looks like I missed the good discussion on my own thread...guess thats what I get for going to bed early...

Deano, what you describe is about what I was thinking about doing...and not to worry about the welder, I have been welding for about 2 years now and have both a nice miller MIG and TIG...

I guess what I was thinking about doing are getting as many of the small pieces as I can from restoration design, cutting out as much of the rust as I can see, treat everything that I can reach, then weld her back up...much like Deano talked about.

I really won't know the full extent of the rust till I really start digging into the long a little bit, but I definately don't want to go full in, probably just cut the soft parts out and weld in patches ( I don't care about this car being an OEM resto )

So, have any of you guys been able to do of this upper long work without cutting off the fender? I have a feeling that I can do it, but it will be a pain in the ass, might be easier to pull the fender off...

Anyway, thanks for the comments, keep them coming and I will add more pics as I start cutting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Thanks,

Tony

[LvSteveH]

I did the upper passenger side long. with the fender still on on a 75 I used to have, it is a pain in the butt, but still much easier than pulling the fender. Obviously access is very limited, so I bought a #10 shade for my oxyfuel goggles and was able to get my head way up in there and weld it with success. Don't forget to wear a little welding cap or you'll be a mess. Trying to weld it with a regular hood on is almost impossible. Oh, you might want to put some SPF 40 sun screen on your face if you'll be doing much welding this way, ask me how I know. I've met a few old welders with some kind of welding ESP and can weld without looking, but I like to see exactly what's going on in the puddle.