Need /4 oil pump and pressure line advice, Need to plumb oil to turbo--how?? Options

[Mueller]

I am rebuilding my motor for a turbocharger.

The motor will be using the stock cam so my RPM redline will remain the same as that on a stock normally asperiated motor.

1) Should I replace the stock oil pump?

2) If so, with which one?

3) Will non-stock pump need to be modified?


I need a constant oil flow for the bearings of the turbo.

4) What are my options for getting this oil?

5) Can I plumb into the oil pump?

6) Is there a place on the block I can tap into for the oil?


Thanks,

Mike

[Brad Roberts]

www.all914.com

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jason samson

Melling high volume pump O ringed.. engine case match ported to pump.

High pressure kit for the oil gallies.

Come off the hole for the oil pressure sending unit (tee off of it).. and the most important..

Return the oil to the side of a tuna can....

B

[bernbomb914]

Brad could yourun a external oil cooler the same way?

Bernie (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[Mark Henry]

I don't care to much for the s-melling pump (iron body, too big of gears, bla-bla).

Myself, I would use a Schadeck 26mm type 1 pump, I do the O ring bit, etc. (BTW this is the same pump Gene Berg and Raby use)

You also do have cut a .100 or so off of the back side of the pump.

[seanery]

Mueller,
I saw on web-cam's page that they have a cam for turbo motors, why not use that one instead of stock?

.500 276 240 119 For turbo applications p/n 00-672
$155.00

[Brad Roberts]

The only reason I say Melling... they are asy to get and work very well when you have a front mounted cooler.

Mark,

Do you have horror stories about the Mellings ?? I have neved had any issues with them (other than leaking).. but the O ring cured that many moons ago.

I want Mike to step up in the oiling department and didnt feel that the Melling would hurt him.

Bernie,

The oil return line for his Turbocharger is much smaller than a return line you woulf have coming from a remote oil cooler. I would just use a Mocal sandwhich plate with the built in bypass/thermostat.

B

[airsix]

I need a constant oil flow for the bearings of the turbo.

4) What are my options for getting this oil?

5) Can I plumb into the oil pump?

6) Is there a place on the block I can tap into for the oil?


Thanks,

Mike

Standard aircooled vw turbo oiling:

Oil in: Replace oil pressure sender with a 'T' fitting on a short extension. Use a grease-gun hose to remotely locate the pressure sender. Use another grease-gun hose to plumb oil to the turbo. Don't hard-mount the sender to the T - virbation due to the pendulum effect may eventually crack something. If the grease-gun hose doesn't get you all the way to the turbo use some hard-line for part of the run.

Oil out: Return the oil to the engine via a valve cover or tap the block where a mechanical fuel pump would be located. Use heater-hose.

I have reservations regarding dumping the oil into the side of a tuna can. I don't think it's a good idea because that puts the end of the oil return hose submerged in the sump oil. That leaves just the volume of the hose for containing the flow of frothed up oil. Better IMHO to dump the oil out of the return hose into an open expanse (valve cover or sump above oil level) so it doesn't get backed up in the hose. Dumping into the side of the tuna-can would be fine if you were pushing it in with a pump (I've heard of a few people useing a Holly fuel pump for this purpose with sucess). But for gravity-feed oil return you need to dump it into an area without restriction.

-Ben M.

[Brad Roberts]

I agree (easily)

The valve cover idea is stupid simple... I think I was trying to push Mike into running a tuna can.. and that gave him another reason to buy one.


B

[Aaron Cox]

what if you dumped it into one of those deep sump thingy boppers? gives you more room for the "frothed" oil

[bernbomb914]

are those deep sump thingabobbies worthwhile? I get my oil temp up to the 3/4 mark on my guage if I run 3500 rpm for any distance and the oil pressure drops to to low on idle. Engine is old and tired but now is not a good time to change.

Bernie (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[Mockmaw]

It's my understanding that deep sumps should only be used on track cars because of clearance issues if run on the street.

[Mueller]

Looking at those pictures of Jasons motor, it looks like I'd have to split the case to do the modifications for the pump (making passages bigger and cutting down the heads of the cam gear bolts)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[Mark Henry]

The only reason I say Melling... they are asy to get and work very well when you have a front mounted cooler.

Mark,

Do you have horror stories about the Mellings ?? I have neved had any issues with them (other than leaking).. but the O ring cured that many moons ago.

I want Mike to step up in the oiling department and didnt feel that the Melling would hurt him.

I have 2 issues with the melling oil pump:

#One is the oil leaking, the expansion rate of steel vs. aluminum is totally different.
Where do you put the O-ring? On almost all of my pumps I put the O-ring on the cam gear side of the in/out holes (I cut a grove) this stops the oil pissing back in to the case and sucking air.

#Two is it is just too big. You have to try to compensate with heavier relief springs, but again this comes with it’s own set of problems, i.e. you can blow out oil galley plugs.

Now most of my experience is with the type 1 but they have “almost” the same oiling systems. You can also get the Schedeck also in a 30mm size, but Gene Berg made a special full flow pressure relief cover because the oil pressure is too great. If you check the STF type 4um most of the guy using this pump also use this cover, but Full Flow cover only work on type 4 (bug) conversions.


You might not hear from me much for a little while, I have a dozen engines on the bench waiting for assembly, and I just got 2 more yesterday.
Of course everyone wants them now.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/boldblue.gif)

[aufaber]

Ya, ther whole T at the pressue sender thing. Evacuate into the valve cover..

Understand that the Turbo's oil is gravity drain, you need to runt he oil in the top and have it drain out the bottom.

Oh wait.. I wonder if we have a picture.. lemme check..

-Aaron G>

[aufaber]

(IMG:http://www.snailpower.com/air-water/soil.jpg)

This was the best picture I could find.

-Aaron G.