'74 914 2L Starter/Cranking/Starting Issue Options

[GregAmy]

Looking for some feedback on a '74 2L no-crank issue. It's inconsistent, and I've only begun to troubleshoot. I've read through various troubleshooting threads and guides.

The basic problem is that sometimes the starter won't turn. No clicking, no turning, total silence, so it's like the solenoid is either not getting power or it's not engaging. The only other symptom I see is the voltmeter moving hard left when I've got the ignition switch in the "start" position, and it goes back to 12 when I release it. Sometimes I can turn off the key and re-try and it'll crank, but a couple times it didn't though I was able to easily push-start it (wife was McKayla-level not amused...)

My thoughts are that this is either a bad starter/solenoid (no clicky at all from solenoid while voltmeter shows a load) or the "hot start relay" issue (although threads seem to indicate the solenoid clicks when this is an issue.) I'm not convinced this is an ignition switch issue, given that the voltmeter is reacting to key going into the "start" position.

I'm about to pull the passenger seat to check the wiring and relays under there (no idea if the seatbelt thing has been disabled) and I'll pull the starter and check that out on the bench (although it's acting fine with the key in my garage today). I may actually pull the starter solenoid off and apart and see if it's in good shape if necessary.

Any other thoughts before I get too deep into this thing...?

- GA

[Bob L.]

The solenoid wont click if it is "hot start issue". Not enough voltage.
When it won't work with the key, try jumping the terminals on the solenoid/starter (key on, car in neutral) and see if it engages.

If it does, you probably have a hot start issue.

Check all of your grounds. Transmission, battery, engine case, by the relay board...

You could be losing voltage in the solenoid. it's a pain but you can open it up and clean the contacts.

or you could go with the relay.

[Tom]

Your problem as stated sounds like the symptoms of a bad connection. Check fuse #9 for cleanliness and the 4 red wires at the battery positive. The high load of the starter solenoid is causing a breakdown of a connection and resultant loss of voltage potential at the voltmeter. The two most likely are the #9 fuse and the positive battery connectors, main connector and 4 red wires with their ring connectors.
Tom

[sfrenck]

Jumping out the seatbelt relay under the passenger seat is quick and easy. I'd start there as my car would sit and play dead until I disabled it.

[Jon H.]

I would atleast double check the ignition switch. Who knows what the bunk ignition switch is doing inside when it fails? If the car starts when the starter is jumped and the key is in the run position then it could be the ignition switch too. That would indicate the coil and ecu is getting power but the starter solenoid isn't getting power in the start position. I had this problem and had two switches on my shelf that where both useless, the third one worked though. They are know to be a common point of failure.

Regards'

Jon

[GregAmy]

Thanks for the replies. If it's normal for the solenoid to not click for the "hot start relay" issue, then I'm leaning that way; it's got the symptoms.

Some thoughts:

- I've ordered the relay/wiring kit from Pelican, looks like an easy install and not a bad idea (seems to be an issue with Vdubs, too).

- Wiring is good. I rechecked the transaxle ground; it was fine but I removed, sanded, and re-installed with some dielectric grease. Battery terminals are clean and strong (it's a new battery I installed a couple months ago) and battery ground is good.

- Haven't yet, but I'll check/clean/replace fuse #9.

- Believe it or not, there's nothing under the passenger seat in my car. I pulled the seat (amazed at how easy it comes out) and the floor is bare. This car has a checkered history, as it was in bad shape when I got it, and it still has no carpets. I may pull the back panel tomorrow, maybe that got stuffed in there?

- I've read where it's common for the ignition switch to go. Process seems a bit fiddly so I don't know how much motivation I have to do it. Too bad it doesn't come out as easy as the one on my Rabbit did...maybe, armed with a beer, I'll take a peek at it tomorrow.

Thanks again!

- Greg

[Spoke]

The only other symptom I see is the voltmeter moving hard left when I've got the ignition switch in the "start" position, and it goes back to 12 when I release it.

I had this exact same thing happen with my 914. Sometimes great start, other times, absolutely nothing. I didn't have a voltmeter but when this would happen, I would turn on the lights and they would be very, very dim, if not off.

The problem was the battery terminals were oxidized. In other words, there is a very thin layer of oxidation between the battery terminals and the clamp. Both clamps were on tight but I had over 4 volt drop between the battery terminals and the clamps with the lights on.

Cleaned the battery terminals and the problem went away.

You have the same issue somewhere. When it won't start, turn the lights on to provide a heavy current drain and start with the battery terminals, not the clamps, and measure voltages. You should be able to trace the loss to the offending item.

[r_towle]

Aside from all of that, a dedicated ground to the start mounting bolt, all the way to the battery, would not hurt.

[chads74]

I am having similar issues right now, I still need to eliminate the relays under the passenger seat. I'll probably tackle that today in hopes that my new ignition switch comes in today or tomorrow. The switch is easy to get to, just depends on how easy your steering wheel comes off. I was told you can unplug the switch without having to remove the knee pad, but at that point I already had mine off. Good luck!

[GregAmy]

I installed Pelican's "hot start relay" kit this morning (very easy, took about 10 minutes) and drove around today. No problems, not even a hint of no crank. In prior trips I'd maybe catch a no crank a couple times, today worked every time, several stops.

Granted, this is a data point of exactly one, so I'm not fully convinced. There should be a few more good days up here in New England to see if this continues.

- GA

[r_towle]

I installed Pelican's "hot start relay" kit this morning (very easy, took about 10 minutes) and drove around today. No problems, not even a hint of no crank. In prior trips I'd maybe catch a no crank a couple times, today worked every time, several stops.

Granted, this is a data point of exactly one, so I'm not fully convinced. There should be a few more good days up here in New England to see if this continues.

- GA

Keep parking on hills so you can roll start it if required.

[bam914]

I always kept a screw driver with me to short the start out.

[r_towle]

I always kept a screw driver with me to short the start out.

Ed showed me a trick.
A quarter reaches between the little spade and the big power wire.

[saigon71]

Hope the hot start relay fixes you up.

[Dave_Darling]

If it's a 74, the Dreaded Seatbelt Interlock Relay (under the passenger's seat) is a strong suspect. Splice the two fat yellow wires under the passenger's seat together. That will disarm the relay.

--DD

[GregAmy]

'Nother data point. Beautiful New England Fall day (they're getting shorter and fewer) and drove the car for a few hours. Not a single problem with the starter, after numerous stops, hot and somewhat cold. Normally on any single run I'd have at least one temporary non-crank issue, today I had absolutely none.

I'm developing confidence this issue has been addressed, but I'll keep the thread posted as I learn more.

Now if I could just get someone to chime in on the low-RPM rough running issue...?

- Greg

[GregAmy]

Final (hopefully) data point: it was the starter.

Had some troubles the last couple summers where I'd rotate the switch to the start position and there would be a moment's delay before the starter cranked. It was random, didn't always happen, and when it did happen the lag time varied. So I replaced the ignition switch, and it seemed to get better but never went totally away.

But I got myself stuck a couple weeks ago in a parking lot where the car would not start. No amount of key jiggling got me there. Fired it up with a quick push-start downhill and crossed my fingers that I didn't stall it in traffic home. got home and it would start, but again would lag.

Replaced the "hot start" Bosch relay, no difference. However, I did notice that I heard what I *think* was the relay "thunking" in the start position, but it was hard to tell over the sounds of the fuel pump whir.

Finally decided the only thing left in the system was a starter, so I bought a reman SR17X off amazon and...car starts like a dream. No lag, fires over immediately, no lag. So I think I've got it whipped, several years later...

If anyone wants a rebuildable SR17X (that's what I think I took out, looks the same), then let me know.

[Mark Henry]

Many times I've replaced the Bosch hot start relay with the Ford solenoid.
I know it's not a Porsche/VW part, get over it.

Not saying it's a cure all, but you used the Bosch and the problem disappeared only to reappear a few weeks later.

[GregAmy]

Many times I've replaced the Bosch hot start relay with the Ford solenoid.
I know it's not a Porsche/VW part, get over it.

Not saying it's a cure all, but you used the Bosch and the problem disappeared only to reappear a few weeks later.

I understand your affinity for your Ford starter solution, I'm not stuck on the Porsche/VW part thing. There's no reason for the "get over it" comment... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I jumped the terminals on the relay plug, and I jumped the solenoid at the starter with a screwdriver. Same results.

It was the starter.