oil vs epoxy coils?, ...and other questions Options

[boxsterfan]

I am looking at the Pertonix Ignitor II for my 74 2.0L. Pelican also lists the Flame Thrower II coil as recommended for this ignition.

However, they come in epoxy and oil filled forms? What's the difference?

Also, I heard that if you switch to a Pertronix setup then you can not have your key in the on position and not starting the car (say to listen to the radio) for an extended period of time as this can burn out the coil. Is that true with the Ignitor II or was that true only with the Ignitor I?

TIA...learning tons here.

[Matt Romanowski]

Key on not running would burn out points. It should be fine with any electronic ignition.

[Dave_Darling]

It's the Pertronix that gets burned up when you leave the key on and the engine off--not the coil. I think that the P-II does not have that problem, but I am not certain.

I don't really know what the differences are between oil-filled and epoxy-filled. My first thought is that the epoxy-filled ones won't leak, so they would be better that way. There may be some other advantage to the oil-filled, though, to keep it around.

--DD

[Mark Henry]

I am looking at the Pertonix Ignitor II for my 74 2.0L. Pelican also lists the Flame Thrower II coil as recommended for this ignition.

However, they come in epoxy and oil filled forms? What's the difference?

Also, I heard that if you switch to a Pertronix setup then you can not have your key in the on position and not starting the car (say to listen to the radio) for an extended period of time as this can burn out the coil. Is that true with the Ignitor II or was that true only with the Ignitor I?

TIA...learning tons here.

Recommended because they want the sale, they work fine with the stock or Bosch blue coil.

On MSD coils the oil filled tend to leak if you don't mount them upright and not on the engine. The epoxy high vibration blaster coil can be mounted any orientation and on the engine. I don't know if there's been issues with the pertronix coils.

Hook the radio up to an always live circuit and just use it's on/off switch...just don't forget to turn it off when you park the car.

[Cap'n Krusty]

In the 40 years I wrenched professionally, and the thousands of cars I serviced and repaired during that time, I don't think I sold more than 30-35 coils, and many of those were specialty coils on later model cars. Maybe 10 or 15 coils total on VWs or older Porsches. Not something I would worry about. Stick with whatcha got.

The Cap'n

[boxsterfan]

In the 40 years I wrenched professionally, and the thousands of cars I serviced and repaired during that time, I don't think I sold more than 30-35 coils, and many of those were specialty coils on later model cars. Maybe 10 or 15 coils total on VWs or older Porsches. Not something I would worry about. Stick with whatcha got.

The Cap'n

Thanks Capn. I'm going to order the Ignitor II later this week, but I'll keep my old coil that is in there already (probably original). Any way I can test/verify my coil that doesn't involve sticking my tongue on it (like testing out old 9V batteries)? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Olympic 914]

FWIW... Many years ago ( when my car was running) I had one of the big yellow accel oil filled coils on my 914, while doing some tune-up work I left the key on for too long and the coil BLEW UP!! spewing oil all over the engine compartment. no other damage though. but a mess to clean up.

I then put a stock type coil back on.

[eyesright]

Hmmmm, Pertronics II...

1400 mile trip to Michigan last month with my Taiwanese points closing. Raining and cold in late afternoon, I coasted under a gas station awning. No more adjustment room in the points to open the gap and the car won't start. I had lots of tools but no small round file I could have used to make room for more points adjustment. I had brought along a Pertronics II and coil which I planned to change while in Michigan, still 3 hours away. Late Sunday afternoon and no town mearby, my only choice is to change out the ignition. Okay, no problem, a bit of a chore and inconvience, but I'll be on my way soon, just a different timetable.

It fires up STRONG and I have to adjust my idle way down. I connect my 20 year dependable Craftsman timing light...which all of a sudden doesn't work! But, what the heck, it sounds and runs good, its getting dark and cold, and only 3 hours to go.

It pulls out STRONG in first, but then sputters a little...then more and more...and 10 miles down the road I'm coasting, hoping I can get to an underpass up ahead. Getting dark, cold , rainy, no motel in sight, trucks roaring past, my only choice is to retry the points. I bend the points with a needlenose so they will have a little more gap, readjust the idle a few turns, throw the tools in the trunk and the Pertronics and coil on top--I figure I'll only have one chance to get going, it probably won't idle and I don't want to take time to gather stuff and close trunks and lids,... and crank...and crank...and crank. Finally it lights off and I pull out. It will run pretty well @3000rpm but it sputters and no power below that. So I'm running 70 mph on 2 lane roads in the rain and pitch dark with deer warning signs every mile. This is Michigan and it is DARK at night up there. Not like Oklahoma where you can see the horizen.

I finally make Lake Huron at midnight. And it won't start in the morning. A little bit of help from friends and from NAPA..."Nooo, we don't have those points in stock but they will be here at 1:30 this afternoon."...I have the distributer apart on the roof of the car when my buddy shows up and ten minutes later, my 914 purrs again.

I make Oklahoma a week later after a 4000 mile trip. Pelican says try the coil by itself with the points. When I go to install it, I notice a film of oil around the top and think...this is not good...and of course it sputters and dies. So I sent sent the pertonics II and coil back and have another supposedly coming. When I talked to Kenny at Pelican he muttered that they have been getting a few of these back and wondered why.

I thought I'd try the hotter coil just because of the description in the 3-5000 rpm range...highway speeds. Looking back I should have just replaced the coil with my old one when I was under the bridge,...getting wet... in the fading light,... in order to isolate the problem. Maybe the ignition was fine and the coil the only problem.

Sorry to hijack the thread but I thought this might now be entertaining. It wasn't at the time. I have no clue regarding oil vs. epoxy filled coils. I ordered the oil filled one because it was cheaper and my understanding is that oil filled is more the norm. Its true I have seen most coils mounted upright on other cars but sideways is the norm on these engines...Maybe Kenny/Pelican can help.

Post your results. I will too.

[Java2570]

http://www.pertronix.com/prod/ig/ignitor2/

Ignitor 2 benefits (according to Pertronix, see link) from having the .6 ohm coil and spiral wound plug wires. The module has a shut down mode that disables the unit if the ignition is left on without starting the engine.
The oil filled coil is fine for street cars, I've always heard that the epoxy coils were more for racing or off road use under more vibrations and heat.

[boxsterfan]

Hmmmm, Pertronics II...

1400 mile trip to Michigan last month with my Taiwanese points closing. Raining and cold in late afternoon, I coasted under a gas station awning. No more adjustment room in the points to open the gap and the car won't start. I had lots of tools but no small round file I could have used to make room for more points adjustment. I had brought along a Pertronics II and coil which I planned to change while in Michigan, still 3 hours away. Late Sunday afternoon and no town mearby, my only choice is to change out the ignition. Okay, no problem, a bit of a chore and inconvience, but I'll be on my way soon, just a different timetable.

It fires up STRONG and I have to adjust my idle way down. I connect my 20 year dependable Craftsman timing light...which all of a sudden doesn't work! But, what the heck, it sounds and runs good, its getting dark and cold, and only 3 hours to go.

It pulls out STRONG in first, but then sputters a little...then more and more...and 10 miles down the road I'm coasting, hoping I can get to an underpass up ahead. Getting dark, cold , rainy, no motel in sight, trucks roaring past, my only choice is to retry the points. I bend the points with a needlenose so they will have a little more gap, readjust the idle a few turns, throw the tools in the trunk and the Pertronics and coil on top--I figure I'll only have one chance to get going, it probably won't idle and I don't want to take time to gather stuff and close trunks and lids,... and crank...and crank...and crank. Finally it lights off and I pull out. It will run pretty well @3000rpm but it sputters and no power below that. So I'm running 70 mph on 2 lane roads in the rain and pitch dark with deer warning signs every mile. This is Michigan and it is DARK at night up there. Not like Oklahoma where you can see the horizen.

I finally make Lake Huron at midnight. And it won't start in the morning. A little bit of help from friends and from NAPA..."Nooo, we don't have those points in stock but they will be here at 1:30 this afternoon."...I have the distributer apart on the roof of the car when my buddy shows up and ten minutes later, my 914 purrs again.

I make Oklahoma a week later after a 4000 mile trip. Pelican says try the coil by itself with the points. When I go to install it, I notice a film of oil around the top and think...this is not good...and of course it sputters and dies. So I sent sent the pertonics II and coil back and have another supposedly coming. When I talked to Kenny at Pelican he muttered that they have been getting a few of these back and wondered why.

I thought I'd try the hotter coil just because of the description in the 3-5000 rpm range...highway speeds. Looking back I should have just replaced the coil with my old one when I was under the bridge,...getting wet... in the fading light,... in order to isolate the problem. Maybe the ignition was fine and the coil the only problem.

Sorry to hijack the thread but I thought this might now be entertaining. It wasn't at the time. I have no clue regarding oil vs. epoxy filled coils. I ordered the oil filled one because it was cheaper and my understanding is that oil filled is more the norm. Its true I have seen most coils mounted upright on other cars but sideways is the norm on these engines...Maybe Kenny/Pelican can help.

Post your results. I will too.

Which coil did you purchase? oil or expoxy? Just curious.....

[eyesright]

Oil. And whenever you see oil leaking around the seam or into the main lead hole its a pretty good indicator the coil is toast. Leaving the ignition on when the points happen to be open will get the coil too hot. Points closed will ground those electrons and just drain the battery. (I think I have that right.)

[Jake Raby]

Oil filled coils are particular to mounting position. Most are meant to be mounted vertically and if mounted in another position the oil will not cover the windings and will lead to failure.

Epoxy can be mounted anywhere, any way.

[boxsterfan]

I asked the question to Pertronix just for kicks....

They stated that the epoxy coil (on a Flame Thrower II) would be the proper application for the 914 since the coil is mounted horizontally. Of course, and correct me if I am wrong, but the original coil is oil filled and have worked in teeners for years and years and years.

Anyway, I understand Pertronix's answer....how could they answer any other way if their docs says "oil for vertical install" and "epoxy for horizontal installs" (in additon to high vibration and high heat applications). Of course, the epoxy is a few dollar more.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)

[worn]

I asked the question to Pertronix just for kicks....

They stated that the epoxy coil (on a Flame Thrower II) would be the proper application for the 914 since the coil is mounted horizontally. Of course, and correct me if I am wrong, but the original coil is oil filled and have worked in teeners for years and years and years.

Anyway, I understand Pertronix's answer....how could they answer any other way if their docs says "oil for vertical install" and "epoxy for horizontal installs" (in additon to high vibration and high heat applications). Of course, the epoxy is a few dollar more.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)

My 911 had a bad coil when I first got it. My idea was that any wires potted in epoxy are more supported than those that aren't. I suspect heat dissipation is similar. There is a lot of vibration going on and I like my epoxy coil a lot. But I don't know if it makes a difference. i just bought a second for another car - my 914-4.

[Jake Raby]

I asked the question to Pertronix just for kicks....

They stated that the epoxy coil (on a Flame Thrower II) would be the proper application for the 914 since the coil is mounted horizontally. Of course, and correct me if I am wrong, but the original coil is oil filled and have worked in teeners for years and years and years.

Anyway, I understand Pertronix's answer....how could they answer any other way if their docs says "oil for vertical install" and "epoxy for horizontal installs" (in additon to high vibration and high heat applications). Of course, the epoxy is a few dollar more.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)

They don't know. The last time I used one of their oil filled coils it erupted into flames.

[boxsterfan]

I asked the question to Pertronix just for kicks....

They stated that the epoxy coil (on a Flame Thrower II) would be the proper application for the 914 since the coil is mounted horizontally. Of course, and correct me if I am wrong, but the original coil is oil filled and have worked in teeners for years and years and years.

Anyway, I understand Pertronix's answer....how could they answer any other way if their docs says "oil for vertical install" and "epoxy for horizontal installs" (in additon to high vibration and high heat applications). Of course, the epoxy is a few dollar more.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)

They don't know. The last time I used one of their oil filled coils it erupted into flames.

So what did you replace it with? Another oil filled from another vendor? Or epoxy from...?

[Jake Raby]

Mallory E coil... Which is what I always use and what I should have used that time, too.