NewOldThread, Martin'sHeads..Bugat5speed..anyone? Options

[veekry9]

Where else can I find a 4-Valve Head?
 Zylko_re_li_mit_Komp._2_070907.pdf ( 101.17k ) Number of downloads: 84


Is Bugat5speed still developing these heads?

Perhaps there is one here on this site who
is informed as to the status of availability.
I posted a photo of his machined prototype
here in "Pix of Enlightenment".

[veekry9]

I saved this years ago on Bugat5speed.
I have searched some to discover the status today
without result.Is there anyone out there who has
info on these custom 4 valve heads for the T4?

[veekry9]

I have recently emailed Martin at Bugat5speed without a response.
I read here that his service was exemplary and hassle free.
His website is still up,and I know he has a ton of money into his machines.
I'm interested to find if any of his clients here are satisfied with his
901/914/915 tx parts.
Anyone?

[0396]

Use search and you will find those that have bought his 916 kit are very happy with Martin's kit. I only wish I had bought one six months ago when he had a special group buy.

[veekry9]

Yeah I read that 1,
His int plate and sidecap for the 914tx look to make the box
solid.Transferring the max load capacity to a different point
of failure.This is good.A failsafe designed in weakpoint in the
drivetrain would protect the tx from overstress.A shearpin,
so to speak.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm..._C._Stennis.jpg

I will continue pinging.

[dlestep]

There was an article on his development of the 4 valve head, I forget what
magazine, maybe Excellence. The asking price was 14k in that article.
On another note. The 4-valve head development by Porsche for the normally
aspirated air-cooled motors, in the seventies, ran too-hot. 4-valve heads
would only be run with water cooling. They were not able to keep the head
temperatures down.
Off-roaders during the late seventies and early eighties, removed about a half
an inch of material off the inboard fins of the heads and welded plates, boxing
them up and added fittings for oil cooling, complete with their own tank, pump
and cooler in attempt to stablize the temperatures of their air-cooled 4s.

[veekry9]

There was an article on his development of the 4 valve head, I forget what
magazine, maybe Excellence. The asking price was 14k in that article.
On another note. The 4-valve head development by Porsche for the normally
aspirated air-cooled motors, in the seventies, ran too-hot. 4-valve heads
would only be run with water cooling. They were not able to keep the head
temperatures down.
Off-roaders during the late seventies and early eighties, removed about a half
an inch of material off the inboard fins of the heads and welded plates, boxing
them up and added fittings for oil cooling, complete with their own tank, pump
and cooler in attempt to stablize the temperatures of their air-cooled 4s.

Thanks.
Seems reasonable,cooling with water.
The entire effort was to cool sufficiently a 4valve head with a similar method
as used by litrebike makers.A thermodynamic study of those examples
would show the greatest constraint to be the conduction of heat away from
the volume between the exhaust valves.This is not news,Rolls Royce
encountered the same problems in the 30's.A latemodel 140+hp bike
does very well in comparison to a T4 in brake specific output.
Yeah,the cost of a 4valve set of heads could not be low having
greater intricacy,although the price of Porsche rollerbearing 4-cams
are proportionately greater.Ya gotta ask yourself,how much go can I get
fer me dough?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewU3lqQa0qI

sounds good

Question is,does a 914-Furhmann even exist?



http://thechicaneblog.com/2012/03/29/brand...-engine-anyone/

[Mark Henry]

Why? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
Just do a six. or a subi....or a subi six.

[bugat5speed]

Hi there,
do apologize for not having answererd yet, or given a status on the heads. Am currently building a brand new workshop for my company and there is too much work for me to be done. A friend informed me that there were discussions her ein the forum.

Status is that we stopped engineering a while ago as we did not find an investor to bring the project forward. I already spent a lot of money and the return seemed to be so far away. Have had some other projects in the meantime which gave a direct return. What concerns cooling of theheads it tis so that we found a way to cool them with air and oil. Remember the motorbike engines of Suzuki GSX-R. They were also cooled with air and oil.

If someone is interested in investing into the project we can start again in the next few months, but without investor the project will stay unfinnished.
We talk about an amout of about 30-40 K Euro.

Martin

[jimkelly]

I agree. why invest this much time/money into a one-off conversion?

I can't imagine a better combo than a suby svx and suby trans, for 2-3x the money.

--

Why? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
Just do a six. or a subi....or a subi six.

[Mark Henry]

I agree. why invest this much time/money into a one-off conversion?

I can't imagine a better combo than a suby svx and suby trans, for 2-3x the money.

--

Why? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
Just do a six. or a subi....or a subi six.

I can....a porsche 3.0 twinplug...oh wait.... that's what I'm doing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

What you (the OP) are researching would cost way more than a Porsche /6 conversion, so why would you do it?
A six conversion has resale value, a big four at least has the value of a /4, but from what I've seen most "other" conversions do not retain their resale value at all.

[DBCooper]

A six conversion has resale value, a big four at least has the value of a /4, but from what I've seen most "other" conversions do not retain their resale value at all.

Really? For me resale values seem more closely related to the car itself rather than what engine's in it. Nice cars that are conversions go for good money, as do nice unconverted cars. Bad cars that are conversions go for little money, as do bad unconverted cars. For example a lot of V8 conversions I've seen in the past started out with pretty marginal cars, so didn't retain value. So that's true as far as it goes, but that same car with a four, unconverted, was still a marginal car and wouldn't have either. Not a lotta data to validate correlations either way, just casual observation.

[veekry9]

Hi there,
do apologize for not having answererd yet, or given a status on the heads. Am currently building a brand new workshop for my company and there is too much work for me to be done. A friend informed me that there were discussions her ein the forum.

Status is that we stopped engineering a while ago as we did not find an investor to bring the project forward. I already spent a lot of money and the return seemed to be so far away. Have had some other projects in the meantime which gave a direct return. What concerns cooling of theheads it tis so that we found a way to cool them with air and oil. Remember the motorbike engines of Suzuki GSX-R. They were also cooled with air and oil.

If someone is interested in investing into the project we can start again in the next few months, but without investor the project will stay unfinnished.
We talk about an amout of about 30-40 K Euro.

Martin

Thanks Mr.Bott
An original proof of concept is no small feat.A custom 4valve aircooled -4 or -6 fits
right in with the desire for greater performance while retaining Porsche/VW
shortblocks.I was inspired when I first read of your efforts in Excellence.
I hope to see further development in the future when time and funds allow.
What a great Idea.Tough to do,but as they say,
"If it Was Easy,Everyone Would Do It"

[veekry9]

Now don't get me wrong,
I considered at great length and was on the precipice of a Suby6 or Suby4T
purchase from an importer on Kipling Ave. here in TO.I later decided
that aircooled would be the way for this '72 cherry tomatoe.A P6 is
however,out of the economical picture.Therefore the 2.7L C6 is the
choice.
In Spirit if not the Letter.I may very well do a Suby6 after I do the V8,
so I do have some time to suss out the configuration.
We could say that Conversions R Us.A convenient
windfall of cash,and I am on the P6 install in a hurry.
As for the Porsche 944S2 swap,that's a more complicated trick
with a GM 6spd tx.Some machining required along with a turbo integration.
A large collection of ideas,but I can only do one at a time.
For my next act,a re+re of the C6 and then the welding of the stiffening
panels,while juggling.

[Mark Henry]

What's a C6?
Even though a /6 conversion is spendy I can't see reinventing the wheel as being any cheaper. If you want to keep costs under control you go where others have been before.

[veekry9]

What's a C6?
Even though a /6 conversion is spendy I can't see reinventing the wheel as being any cheaper. If you want to keep costs under control you go where others have been before.

Corvair,soon to be Injected MS.

[Dave_Darling]

Question is,does a 914-Furhmann even exist?

Not to my knowledge. The Fuhrmann motor runs you in the neighborhood of $80K - $100K on its own. A wee bit high-cost for a 914, when you can install a 3.6 for $20K or less if you're motivated.

The four-cam motors are in much higher demand for 904s, Spyders, other vintage racers, 356es, etc.

--DD

[veekry9]

Question is,does a 914-Furhmann even exist?

Not to my knowledge. The Fuhrmann motor runs you in the neighborhood of $80K - $100K on its own. A wee bit high-cost for a 914, when you can install a 3.6 for $20K or less if you're motivated.

The four-cam motors are in much higher demand for 904s, Spyders, other vintage racers, 356es, etc.

--DD

Nah,one wouldn't do a Fuhrmann install as a economical alternative
but where else can you get an aircooled 4cam 4?With a pedigree even.
Capricorn sez 127K.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KufliFmhys


http://www.rennwagenmotor.com/

I imagine there were some differing opinions even among the
engineering staff at Porsche during it's development.
A machine co. owner once said to me,"If it was easy,everyone
could do it"