 Bill's 2.8 -4 Twin Plug Thread, 48x38 twin plug conversion |
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| FourBlades |
 Nov 25 2013, 09:33 AM
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#21
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From Wreck to Rockin  Group: Members Posts: 2,054 Joined: 3-December 07 From: Brevard, FL Member No.: 8,414 Region Association: South East States 
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You are always doing something cool to your engine. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) It was great seeing you again this year at the Ramble. John |
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| McMark |
Nov 25 2013, 10:41 AM
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#22
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
Awesome Build! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)
I love MicroSquirt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) Ignition drivers built in, fuel and ignition for four cylinders, small, waterproof. I'm gushing now... |
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| Mark Henry |
Nov 25 2013, 11:56 AM
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#23
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
QUOTE(jimkelly @ Nov 25 2013, 09:41 AM)  http://thedubshop.net/ would dual plug be worth any extra HP on an otherwise stock engine? does emw have a website? carry on : ) emw = European Motor Works.... add a dot com and your good to go. |
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| gothspeed |
Nov 25 2013, 11:35 PM
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#24
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,539 Joined: 3-February 09 From: SoCal Member No.: 10,019 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(WLD419 @ Nov 25 2013, 03:10 AM) QUOTE(gothspeed @ Nov 24 2013, 10:08 PM) What valve spring arrangement will be used on these? ...... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Are any of these valves Ti? The modules I picked up from the bone yard out of a couple of ford escorts , I'm leaning towards megajolt ignition with edis4 x 2 with Mario's crankfire gear & bracket for vr sensor (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) , I'm already running EFI , CB performance quicktune (older version w/o ignition ) I'll be running CB performance's vw650 dual springs , I have a set in the heads I'm running right now with titanium retainers with .560 lift , stainless valves with Ti retainers (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) , thanks Bill D. What kind of carbs or efi will be used? |
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| Bills914-4 |
Nov 26 2013, 07:14 PM
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#25
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Member Group: Members Posts: 310 Joined: 1-March 08 From: suburbs of Miami FL. Member No.: 8,762 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(gothspeed @ Nov 26 2013, 12:35 AM) QUOTE(WLD419 @ Nov 25 2013, 03:10 AM) QUOTE(gothspeed @ Nov 24 2013, 10:08 PM) What valve spring arrangement will be used on these? ...... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Are any of these valves Ti? The modules I picked up from the bone yard out of a couple of ford escorts , I'm leaning towards megajolt ignition with edis4 x 2 with Mario's crankfire gear & bracket for vr sensor (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) , I'm already running EFI , CB performance quicktune (older version w/o ignition ) I'll be running CB performance's vw650 dual springs , I have a set in the heads I'm running right now with titanium retainers with .560 lift , stainless valves with Ti retainers (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) , thanks Bill D. What kind of carbs or efi will be used?  |
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| Bills914-4 |
Nov 26 2013, 08:16 PM
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#26
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Member Group: Members Posts: 310 Joined: 1-March 08 From: suburbs of Miami FL. Member No.: 8,762 Region Association: South East States |
Here's some pic's of the pistons I'll be using ,some oldschool Aria's 103mm I picked up on the samba last year ( collecting parts for awhile (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ) price was right (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ,
they didn't have grooves for the clips so I made some Teflon buttons (ptfe, McMaster) , thanks for looking Bill D.     |
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| gothspeed |
Nov 27 2013, 12:39 AM
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#27
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,539 Joined: 3-February 09 From: SoCal Member No.: 10,019 Region Association: None |
Wow!!! Great pics (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) !!!! I like the 'air cooled' spark plug wires too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) !!
With that awesome 911 style cooling system, I have to ask, what kind of tin/shroud is needed for this configuration? Is this cooling setup totally custom or just 'some' of it .... with the balance available from whom? ....... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif) |
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| Jake Raby |
Nov 27 2013, 09:19 AM
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#28
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Nov 25 2013, 06:53 AM) QUOTE(jimkelly @ Nov 25 2013, 08:41 AM) http://thedubshop.net/ would dual plug be worth any extra HP on an otherwise stock engine? does emw have a website? carry on : ) Jake posted in another twin plug thread that the twin plug worked best on large displacement engines. I would assume that would have to with the added volume of charge and the increased chamber area for the charge to expand. But I'm no expert. Correction: Large BORE engines, even a 2.0 thats a short stroke, large bore could benefit greatly from twin plugs, just like the same bore on a 3.1L beast :-) Thats because the dwell time for flame propagation matters so much more with large bores. Having two plugs on opposite sides of the chamber allow for two flame fronts that meet in the center of the chamber rather than a single flame front that has to burn across the chamber more slowly. I find that most large bore single plug engines require 32-34* BTDC timing to optimize, while the same heads and cam when used on a smaller (96mm) bore will optimize at 26-28* BTDC. This screams efficiency because the same (105-107mm) bore size with twin plugs will optimize with 22-24*BTDC timing as a twin plug engine. Any engine that we build thats over a 102mm bore gets twin plugs, as standard. And a roller camshaft :-) When it gets interesting is adding more dwell time to one plug more than the other and then firing one plug before the other, or splitting the timing up between the two plugs by a couple of degrees. It will make your head spin, but the torque scale on the dyno will twist even further. Thats how I built a 249HP, 2.8L engine that still averaged 35 MPG running at 80 MPH. This post has been edited by Jake Raby: Nov 27 2013, 09:20 AM |
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| gothspeed |
Nov 29 2013, 01:36 AM
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#29
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,539 Joined: 3-February 09 From: SoCal Member No.: 10,019 Region Association: None |
What cylinder head cores were used to create this awesome configuration? 1.7 or 1.8? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
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| Bills914-4 |
Nov 30 2013, 09:16 AM
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#30
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Member Group: Members Posts: 310 Joined: 1-March 08 From: suburbs of Miami FL. Member No.: 8,762 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(gothspeed @ Nov 27 2013, 01:39 AM) Wow!!! Great pics (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) !!!! I like the 'air cooled' spark plug wires too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) !! With that awesome 911 style cooling system, I have to ask, what kind of tin/shroud is needed for this configuration? Is this cooling setup totally custom or just 'some' of it .... with the balance available from whom? ....... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif) It's an old (11+ yrs.) BB (Bernie Bergmann) off road system with a few internal mods done to help equal the temperature closer to each other . I never got around to putting sheet metal trim ( needs to be custom ) so far it's been good to me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ,I tried those deflector piece's under the car , but in my case it made it worse (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) , maybe if I put the sheet metal trim on & sealed the engine compartment , it may work (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) ( more work in the future ) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) , thanks Bill D. |
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| gothspeed |
Nov 30 2013, 10:02 PM
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#31
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,539 Joined: 3-February 09 From: SoCal Member No.: 10,019 Region Association: None |
Post more pics of this engine Bill!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)
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| dfelz |
Nov 30 2013, 10:20 PM
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#32
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beach bum Group: Members Posts: 419 Joined: 7-June 12 From: San Diego Member No.: 14,538 Region Association: Southern California
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QUOTE(gothspeed @ Nov 30 2013, 08:02 PM) +1! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Was there a build thread from that engine? I would love to see more details and pictures. |
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| wndsrfr |
Dec 1 2013, 09:36 AM
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#33
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,430 Joined: 30-April 09 From: Rescue, Virginia Member No.: 10,318 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
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QUOTE Beautiful set up--love the velocity stacks--old school "Pornsche". WATCH OUT during assembly of the fuel rails & injectors that you don't leave out the little clips that retain the injectors into the rail. Mine were left out such that the only thing holding it all together was the screw from underneath pushing the rail down onto the injectors. Screw worked loose, engine started misfiring at VIR on back straight, found fuel spraying copiously from driver's side rail and the hell hole under the relay box FULL of fuel because a stray 10mm tin screw was blocking the drain hole and the fuel had even seeped through into the carpeting on the left side of the driver's seat. Anyone with the CB injector rails please take note! BTW, I'm a fan of SFI rated fire suits now... |
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| gothspeed |
Dec 2 2013, 04:44 PM
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#34
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,539 Joined: 3-February 09 From: SoCal Member No.: 10,019 Region Association: None |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif) in the hope more pics will be posted .............. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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| Bills914-4 |
Dec 2 2013, 07:02 PM
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#35
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Member Group: Members Posts: 310 Joined: 1-March 08 From: suburbs of Miami FL. Member No.: 8,762 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(wndsrfr @ Dec 1 2013, 10:36 AM) QUOTE Beautiful set up--love the velocity stacks--old school "Pornsche". WATCH OUT during assembly of the fuel rails & injectors that you don't leave out the little clips that retain the injectors into the rail. Mine were left out such that the only thing holding it all together was the screw from underneath pushing the rail down onto the injectors. Screw worked loose, engine started misfiring at VIR on back straight, found fuel spraying copiously from driver's side rail and the hell hole under the relay box FULL of fuel because a stray 10mm tin screw was blocking the drain hole and the fuel had even seeped through into the carpeting on the left side of the driver's seat. Anyone with the CB injector rails please take note! BTW, I'm a fan of SFI rated fire suits now... You brought up a good point , if I didn't have clips ,( which I did) I wouldn't have known , as for the screws I have a lock washer & thread locker on it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) , thank you for the heads up , The velocity stacks I had in the back of the shed ( they came with 48 dells I bought off the samba ) I found them looking for something else & I thought (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) , I liked the look so I bought some screens from Bill's Racing , Thank you Bill D. here's a link http://www.bbrfilters.com/apps/webstore/ |
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| Bills914-4 |
Dec 2 2013, 07:26 PM
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#36
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Member Group: Members Posts: 310 Joined: 1-March 08 From: suburbs of Miami FL. Member No.: 8,762 Region Association: South East States |
Here's a few pic's sorry these are older , I promise to take lots of pic's when I do the twin plug change (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) , Thanks you guys Bill D. , I hope you like
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| carr914 |
Dec 2 2013, 07:30 PM
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#37
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Racer from Birth Group: Members Posts: 118,774 Joined: 2-February 04 From: Tampa,FL Member No.: 1,623 Region Association: South East States  |
QUOTE(WLD419 @ Dec 2 2013, 08:26 PM) Here's a few pic's sorry these are older , I promise to take lots of pic's when I do the twin plug change (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) , Thanks you guys Bill D. , I hope you like That is some 4 Cylinder Porn right there! |
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| gothspeed |
Dec 2 2013, 10:14 PM
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#38
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,539 Joined: 3-February 09 From: SoCal Member No.: 10,019 Region Association: None |
Totally freakin' awesome!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif)
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| Mueller |
Oct 21 2016, 01:24 PM
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#39
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,146 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None
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Bumping an old thread while looking for info....
how is this beast running? |
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