 Type IV upgrades and FI, Where's the cut-off to carbs? |
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| ClayPerrine |
 Jan 8 2014, 12:58 PM
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#21
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Life's been good to me so far.....  Group: Admin Posts: 15,430 Joined: 11-September 03 From: Hurst, TX. Member No.: 1,143 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille 
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If you want to run FI with a big cam, go find the LH-Jet from a volvo. Use the injectors and intake runners from an L-Jet system, but use the Hot wire Mass air flow sensor from the LH-Jet volvo. You may have to fab a harness, but the hot wire mass airflow sensor won't be affected by the flutter problem you get with the vane air meter in the L-Jet system.
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| 0396 |
Jan 8 2014, 01:38 PM
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#22
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,046 Joined: 13-October 03 From: L.A. Calif Member No.: 1,245 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Jan 8 2014, 10:58 AM)  If you want to run FI with a big cam, go find the LH-Jet from a volvo. Use the injectors and intake runners from an L-Jet system, but use the Hot wire Mass air flow sensor from the LH-Jet volvo. You may have to fab a harness, but the hot wire mass airflow sensor won't be affected by the flutter problem you get with the vane air meter in the L-Jet system. Interesting...now what years did these LH systems were used? Thanks for the education. |
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| ClayPerrine |
Jan 8 2014, 01:42 PM
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#23
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Life's been good to me so far..... Group: Admin Posts: 15,430 Joined: 11-September 03 From: Hurst, TX. Member No.: 1,143 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille
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You have to find an early LH Jet system. The later ones won't work. You also get a computer controlled idle system too.
Volvo and Saab. Early 80s. |
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| Krieger |
Jan 8 2014, 01:50 PM
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#24
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,704 Joined: 24-May 04 From: Santa Rosa CA Member No.: 2,104 Region Association: None
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I looked at using a system off a turbo volvo when I was considering turbo charging my 2270 and keeping fi. Exactly the same engine size as mine. I don't remember which model but they were a dime a dozen.
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| boxsterfan |
Jan 8 2014, 01:52 PM
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#25
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914's are kewl Group: Members Posts: 1,776 Joined: 6-June 03 From: San Ramon, CA Member No.: 791 Region Association: Northern California |
Gotta grab the ECU from the Volvo also right? or simply just the MAF and hook it up the the stock 2.0L ECU from an L-Jet (with fabbed harness)?
How about fuel pressure? Need to bump it a little? |
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| ClayPerrine |
Jan 8 2014, 02:32 PM
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#26
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Life's been good to me so far..... Group: Admin Posts: 15,430 Joined: 11-September 03 From: Hurst, TX. Member No.: 1,143 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille
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QUOTE(boxsterfan @ Jan 8 2014, 01:52 PM) Gotta grab the ECU from the Volvo also right? or simply just the MAF and hook it up the the stock 2.0L ECU from an L-Jet (with fabbed harness)? How about fuel pressure? Need to bump it a little? You need everything from the LH-Jet car. The harness, the ECU, the AFM, the IAC, the O2 sensor.... EVERYTHING. Then alter the harness so you can put it on the type IV engine, and use the Type IV head temp sensor. |
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| Chris Pincetich |
Jan 8 2014, 02:48 PM
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#27
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B-) Group: Members Posts: 2,082 Joined: 3-October 05 From: Point Reyes Station, CA Member No.: 4,907 Region Association: Northern California |
There's some great FI info to read about here on 914 World about applying CIS FI to larger displacement (and turbo) TIVs.
The L-jet would be cool because it is an "original" 914 FI system, and CIS is cool because it would look more like a 911 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
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| ClayPerrine |
Jan 8 2014, 02:58 PM
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#28
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Life's been good to me so far..... Group: Admin Posts: 15,430 Joined: 11-September 03 From: Hurst, TX. Member No.: 1,143 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille
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QUOTE(ChrisNPDrider @ Jan 8 2014, 02:48 PM) There's some great FI info to read about here on 914 World about applying CIS FI to larger displacement (and turbo) TIVs. The L-jet would be cool because it is an "original" 914 FI system, and CIS is cool because it would look more like a 911 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) CIS suffers from the same problems as the stock L-Jet with high overlap cams. The air flow plate flutters in the reversion pulses, causing incorrect fuel mixture. The CIS 911 engines had a LOT milder cam profiles than the carbed or MFI engines to correct this. |
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| boxsterfan |
Jan 8 2014, 03:39 PM
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#29
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914's are kewl Group: Members Posts: 1,776 Joined: 6-June 03 From: San Ramon, CA Member No.: 791 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Jan 8 2014, 12:32 PM) QUOTE(boxsterfan @ Jan 8 2014, 01:52 PM) Gotta grab the ECU from the Volvo also right? or simply just the MAF and hook it up the the stock 2.0L ECU from an L-Jet (with fabbed harness)? How about fuel pressure? Need to bump it a little? You need everything from the LH-Jet car. The harness, the ECU, the AFM, the IAC, the O2 sensor.... EVERYTHING. Then alter the harness so you can put it on the type IV engine, and use the Type IV head temp sensor. Can you describe the characteristics of the motor once this was all said and done? Streetable? Where was the power band? Good idle on cold start? Idle on hot start? TIA... |
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| rhodyguy |
Jan 9 2014, 08:38 AM
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#30
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Chimp Sanctuary NW. Check it out. Group: Members Posts: 22,071 Joined: 2-March 03 From: Orion's Bell. The BELL! Member No.: 378 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
BMWs used Ljet as well. your 2.0 heads have 3 studs to attach the intake manifolds. stock Ljet manifolds have 4 so some adaptation would be required. going 2270 big? think carbs or aftermarket dual throttle bodies. bring a pile of c-notes and a bottle of aspirin.
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| ClayPerrine |
Jan 9 2014, 08:57 AM
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#31
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Life's been good to me so far..... Group: Admin Posts: 15,430 Joined: 11-September 03 From: Hurst, TX. Member No.: 1,143 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille
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QUOTE(rhodyguy @ Jan 9 2014, 08:38 AM) BMWs used Ljet as well. your 2.0 heads have 3 studs to attach the intake manifolds. stock Ljet manifolds have 4 so some adaptation would be required. going 2270 big? think carbs or aftermarket dual throttle bodies. bring a pile of c-notes and a bottle of aspirin. You can use the 3 bolt intake runners with the L-Jet system. I have done it. |
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| rhodyguy |
Jan 9 2014, 09:06 AM
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#32
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Chimp Sanctuary NW. Check it out. Group: Members Posts: 22,071 Joined: 2-March 03 From: Orion's Bell. The BELL! Member No.: 378 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
after drilling 4 new holes, yes?
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| ClayPerrine |
Jan 9 2014, 09:08 AM
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#33
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Life's been good to me so far..... Group: Admin Posts: 15,430 Joined: 11-September 03 From: Hurst, TX. Member No.: 1,143 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille
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QUOTE(rhodyguy @ Jan 9 2014, 09:06 AM) after drilling 4 new holes, yes? No, I have put L-Jet injection on to a 2.0 motor using the factory parts. It is a complete bolt on with no modifications. Drove that same car from Fort Worth to Salt Lake City for Parade 2012 in that configuration. |
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| ChrisFoley |
Jan 9 2014, 10:01 AM
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#34
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I am Tangerine Racing Group: Members Posts: 7,920 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Bolton, CT Member No.: 209 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(rhodyguy @ Jan 9 2014, 10:06 AM) after drilling 4 new holes, yes? 2 liter runners will connect to 1.8L plenums by using longer than stock hoses. |
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| Chris Pincetich |
Jan 9 2014, 10:36 AM
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#35
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B-) Group: Members Posts: 2,082 Joined: 3-October 05 From: Point Reyes Station, CA Member No.: 4,907 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Jan 8 2014, 12:58 PM) QUOTE(ChrisNPDrider @ Jan 8 2014, 02:48 PM) There's some great FI info to read about here on 914 World about applying CIS FI to larger displacement (and turbo) TIVs. The L-jet would be cool because it is an "original" 914 FI system, and CIS is cool because it would look more like a 911 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) CIS suffers from the same problems as the stock L-Jet with high overlap cams. The air flow plate flutters in the reversion pulses, causing incorrect fuel mixture. The CIS 911 engines had a LOT milder cam profiles than the carbed or MFI engines to correct this. Yep, cool, thanks! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) So Clay, if a hypothetical 2270 TIV was built with a mild cam focused on street driving and low-end torque (great for the weekend AX!) and designed around an FI system, and the build was by a novice hoping for low costs and easy assembly + tuning, would you go with L-jet or CIS?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) PS: or D-jet with resistors, re-calibrated MPS etc?? PPS: I know the advantages of new, aftermarket FI options. Just inquiring about old "Porsche parts" retrofitting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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| ClayPerrine |
Jan 9 2014, 10:43 AM
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#36
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Life's been good to me so far..... Group: Admin Posts: 15,430 Joined: 11-September 03 From: Hurst, TX. Member No.: 1,143 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille
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QUOTE(ChrisNPDrider @ Jan 9 2014, 10:36 AM) QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Jan 8 2014, 12:58 PM) QUOTE(ChrisNPDrider @ Jan 8 2014, 02:48 PM) There's some great FI info to read about here on 914 World about applying CIS FI to larger displacement (and turbo) TIVs. The L-jet would be cool because it is an "original" 914 FI system, and CIS is cool because it would look more like a 911 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) CIS suffers from the same problems as the stock L-Jet with high overlap cams. The air flow plate flutters in the reversion pulses, causing incorrect fuel mixture. The CIS 911 engines had a LOT milder cam profiles than the carbed or MFI engines to correct this. Yep, cool, thanks! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) So Clay, if a hypothetical 2270 TIV was built with a mild cam focused on street driving and low-end torque (great for the weekend AX!) and designed around an FI system, and the build was by a novice hoping for low costs and easy assembly + tuning, would you go with L-jet or CIS?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) PS: or D-jet with resistors, re-calibrated MPS etc?? PPS: I know the advantages of new, aftermarket FI options. Just inquiring about old "Porsche parts" retrofitting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I would use the L-Jet. It's already setup for the type IV, verses the CIS, which is not. You have to fabricate all the mounts and plumbing for the CIS system. The L-Jet is a bolt on. |
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| MartyYeoman |
Jan 9 2014, 02:03 PM
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#37
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,517 Joined: 19-June 03 From: San Ramon, CA Member No.: 839 Region Association: Northern California
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The attached images show 2 liter heads, 912E runners and 1.8 L-jet plenum mounted for use. The only modification I did was reorient one of the runner tubes to better point at its plenum port. Longer than stock connection hoses are called for (probably sourced from McMaster-Carr).
Attached thumbnail(s)  
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| ClayPerrine |
Jan 9 2014, 02:23 PM
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#38
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Life's been good to me so far..... Group: Admin Posts: 15,430 Joined: 11-September 03 From: Hurst, TX. Member No.: 1,143 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille
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QUOTE(Marty Yeoman @ Jan 9 2014, 02:03 PM) The attached images show 2 liter heads, 912E runners and 1.8 L-jet plenum mounted for use. The only modification I did was reorient one of the runner tubes to better point at its plenum port. Longer than stock connection hoses are called for (probably sourced from McMaster-Carr). I just used some radiator hose from FLAPS and some hose clamps. But then I am cheap that way. |
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| polo classic |
Jan 9 2014, 02:54 PM
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#39
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 32 Joined: 7-October 11 From: Oslo Member No.: 13,650 Region Association: Scandinavia |
Anyone know if the chip in the stock 914 ecu is soldered in?
Anyone had a look at the content on the chip? Shouldn't be that hard to change the fuel table...I have mapped VW Digifant earlier, and the 914 ecu cant be any harder? |
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| Valy |
Jan 9 2014, 03:12 PM
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#40
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,671 Joined: 6-April 10 From: Sunnyvale, CA Member No.: 11,573 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(polo classic @ Jan 9 2014, 12:54 PM) Anyone know if the chip in the stock 914 ecu is soldered in? Anyone had a look at the content on the chip? Shouldn't be that hard to change the fuel table...I have mapped VW Digifant earlier, and the 914 ecu cant be any harder? Chip ?!?! This is a late '60 design, it's all analog. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) |
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