Way OT: whole house water filter & softener, Any hands-on experience? Options

[draganc]

I know this topic is way off, but I have always been impressed about the input of the forum's members.

Alright, here is the scenario:

I have a water-well, salt based softener and an As filter (the level is just over the NJ limits).

The problem:

Instead on working on my 914, I'm schlepping salt bags into the basement and water jugs into the garage.

What I want:

A whole house water filter system, a salt-free softener and a revers-osmosis filter in the kitchen only.

I searched the internet high and low but would like to hear some real experience from the members here.

At the moment I have the Aquasana Rhino, Pelican and NuvoH2O on the radar.

Thanks for your input
DC

PS: I already tried to switch from water to beer. However, that didn't work out to well with the rest of the family :-(.

[mepstein]

How much salt are you using? We have very iron heavy water and a family of 5 and use about 10 bags of salt a year. That's about $70. Softener has required maintenance once in the last 8-10 years. Water is undrinkable without the softener but great with it. Softener was $1200 installed. I don't know what the non salt systems cost. Are you using more than a bag a month? If so, something might be wrong.

[timothy_nd28]

I have heard nothing good about the saltless systems. Keep your current softener, but change out the resin bed to the high quality micro resin beads. You can also move the salt tank away from the softener, up to 30 feet if I remember right. So, if you have an attached garage, you could put the salt tank in there. This would keep you from dragging salt bags into the basement.

A RO system is a good idea for the kitchen. Good ones can be had off of eBay for under 300.

[draganc]

We are 4 and my wife washes clothes everyday. I did a water test, forgot the result, but it was almost maxed out. If I set the current water softener to the appropriate level, we still see some white spots in the kitchen.

10 bags a year would be perfect! However, we are are using about 2-3 bags a month.

What kind of unit did you get for $1200 and where?

Thanks...

[Jeffs9146]

I added a whole house filter in the main line before the soft water maker and it made a huge difference in the flavor of my water! My soft water maker uses about a 2/3's of a bag of salt per month.

I also have a RO system in the kitchen that I use for coffee and cooking.

You can see in these photos the before and after with 2 months of use!

[draganc]

@tim, can please be more specific about your observations?

What I came up so far:

Salt based: pro softens the water by removing minerals from the water, but on the flips sides that's also bad because it strips the water from good and essential minerals. Also, requires salt and waste water flushing.

Salt less systems / conditioner: doesn't remove water's minerals but changes its charge state, hence it will not deposit on pipes and surfaces. Con: expensive ($1000-2000), and doesn't really remove the minerals but rather "confines" them.

[draganc]

Jeff, can you share the brand of the filter, water softener and RO system?
2/3 bags a months? Woah!

Do you have city or well water?

Thks

[Jeffs9146]

It is bad City Well Water! I only do laundry 3 days a week though!

The RO system is a WIN-445 system with a 5 micron filter that was purchased about 13 years ago and I rebuild it every 5-6 years.

The Soft Water Maker is a Kinetico system.

The whole house filter is a GE FXHTC that removes Sediment, Sand & Rust as well as reducing chlorine.

I may add another whole house filter after the first one that has a charcol filter even though everything is good now why not go for better!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[76-914]

You need to know the hardness of your water in order to size your system. If you over treat (<3grns per mil i.e.= dead soft water) then your going to go thru some water heaters. Actually, the anode rods get eaten up rather quickly and if not replaced will lead to premature tank failure. See http://www.hotwater.com/lit/bulletin/bulletin44.pdf . Softners remove the minerals by attaching them to resin beads which are in turn flushed off the beads by salt water. Water conditioners do not remove the minerals but rather keep them in suspension, preventing them from precipitating and thereby avoiding mineral stains left on your dishes. Neither the softner or conditioner improve the taste. That is done with filters. Your prefilter will trap large particles and protect the unit being used whilst the post filter(s) which are usually carbon improve the taste. Clamp on exterior devices are snake oil and I have yet to see them work. Jeff mentioned Kinetico which is an excellent brand softner. R/O's are < $180 at Costco and are throw aways at that price. I paid 1800 for my first one in 1985! I recommend that everyone have an RO. As for recommending a water softner; not so much. There are areas where softners are "needed" and there are areas that have very good water softner sales people. One other note. Women usually love softners because the trace amounts of salt draw the glycerin from your skin and leave you with that "bath oil bead" feeling on your skin. Softners also reduce the amount of soap that you use drastically. If you have one installed you will need to have a few hose bibbs run off your hard water side for watering your yard. Wash your car with the softened side for a spotless rinse. Hope this helps. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[mepstein]

We are 4 and my wife washes clothes everyday. I did a water test, forgot the result, but it was almost maxed out. If I set the current water softener to the appropriate level, we still see some white spots in the kitchen.

10 bags a year would be perfect! However, we are are using about 2-3 bags a month.

What kind of unit did you get for $1200 and where?

Thanks...

Found the invoice. Was actually $1300. Autotrol DWC32 762. 5 year warranty.
If the salt runs out the water is brown and tastes horrible. With the unit running, water tastes great, even to my picky wife. I didn't do any research, just called a local water softener company and trusted them to do their job. They have come back once for service aftr the 5 years and did a service with new seals and o-rings. They make sure the setting is correct for the water hardness. I don't touch it except for 2 bags of iron out salt every 2 or 3 months.

[rudedude]

What about whole house RO systems? Then not need water softeners. Newer RO systems don't waste as much water as older. Thats what I was told by the dealer as he is trying to sell me a better system at a higher cost to improve my well water.

[Spoke]

We have a well with trace amounts of arsenic but elevated lead levels. EPA told us not to drink the water - After 20 years in the house. The Fridge has an NSF certified filter which removes 99.99% of lead so we get our drinking water there.

We have 2 whole house filters. First one is 35um filter for big particles, followed by a 5um filter. We had just the 5um filter for a while but filters would clog in 2 weeks. Now filters last over a month.

The water softener is from Sears and is 20 years old. It uses about one 40lb bag of salt per month.

[rohar]

What about whole house RO systems? Then not need water softeners. Newer RO systems don't waste as much water as older. Thats what I was told by the dealer as he is trying to sell me a better system at a higher cost to improve my well water.

You have to remember that iron is in solution, not particulate. Even RO systems won't do much. It must be removed by electrolytic or chemical bonding before the filter to bring it out of solution and into suspension. If you're on municipal water, it's likely chlorinated which brings iron into suspension, in this case, an RO system may be effective.

This is where water softeners come in. That said water softeners do raise the sodium levels of drinking water so that's generally a bad idea.

We run a pair of high grain sand filters at the pump, then an RO in the house proper, the PO installed a standard water softener, but it's plumbed into the whole house including the kitchen so we don't use it.

In the end, we're very happy about the system except the iron buildup on fixtures. To fight that, about every 6 monts, I grab a big cheep bottle of vitamin C from Costco, punch some holes in it and stuff it in the RO canister with no filter for about a week. It bonds to all of the iron in the entire house, pipes fixtures and all, and it goes down the drain.

[mepstein]

We had our water checked and sodium was very low. I was told it's not a concern in a properly running water softener.

Correction to earlier post - Our softener was installed in '07. The $200 service was done on a prior softener. Our softener guy stops by one in a while when he's in the area to check on the unit but no service has been done and no $ when he stops by to check. I have refered him to at least 6 people in my area due to his service.