Subaru swap stories?, where's fiid? Options

[mattillac]

i didn't realize there was that much room in front of the motor when doing a suby conversion. hopes of a radiator fitting there seem pretty good. some creative ducting would be needed though. what is the engine code for the motor you're installing, fiid?

[scotty914]

QUOTE (mattillac @ Jan 7 2005, 07:26 PM)

i didn't realize there was that much room in front of the motor when doing a suby conversion. hopes of a radiator fitting there seem pretty good. some creative ducting would be needed though. what is the engine code for the motor you're installing, fiid?

first i am not fiid, but i will reply any way

i am using a suby ej25.

and heres a pic to show how much room there is

[mattillac]

QUOTE (scott thacher @ Jan 7 2005, 07:37 PM)

first i am not fiid, but i will reply any way

sorry. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/screwy.gif) not paying attention. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/headbang.gif) thanks for the reply! what made you go for the ej25?

[lapuwali]

I'm not Scott, but since he's talking for Fiid, I'll talk for Scott...The EJ20/22/25 are the most commonly available Soob engines these days. The 2.5 NA engine makes about 160hp in bone-stock trim with all cats and emissions gear. Since it's a twin-cam four-valver, it should be able to make about 200hp in reliable, streetable trim with some tweaking.

They're about $1500 used in low-miles condition. The EJ22 is about 140hp, and could make 170 or so with tweaking. They're even cheaper used (older engine).

As for all of the space forward of the engine, there's no big fan housing on the front to take up space. A bare Type IV with no housing or tin is about the same size as one of these engines. The Soob engine is also all aluminum, and weighs a bit less than a Type IV (minus the radiator).

The turbo versions of these engines make substantially more power (as much as 300hp for the 2.5), but as previously discussed, the turbos get in the way of a lot of things on the 914. Fiid has had to cut out much of his trunk and has run into starter motor clearance problems with his twin-turbo engine.

[scotty914]

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Jan 7 2005, 08:05 PM)

I'm not Scott, but since he's talking for Fiid,

sorry i was not sure who he was asking.

if you decide to go this rout dont try to tweek the gen 1 2.5 too much, they found a weak point in the case and failure rates go up very quickly with more power ( one number i read was 180 hp ) the gen 2 motor is a stronger motor, due to minor case changes.

the reason i went 2.5 was the 2.2 are getting harder to find low milage. and for just a little more money ( 400 bucks ) i got 40 more hp, BTW what would 40 more hp cost out of a type IV. the weaker case is why they waited for 3 years to release the turbo 2.5 in the US

[fiid]

I actually am Fiid, and these guys said nearly everything that needs to be said.

If I tried this again I might go with a 2.5 or a 2.0 naturally aspirated, or with a single turbo engine. The twin turbo setup promises to be a nightmare.

[Brando]

going back to the mounting ideas...

seems you guys don't want to use pre-fabbed bars and supports because they put too much leverage on the engine mounts... One cage (or, cradle) that was posted here would have potential clearance issues with the shifting linkage...

Why not use the bar presented here, mount it up to the engine with subaru rubber mounts, then continue off of where the subi mount points are to the frame of the car, either to the sides or run pieces forward to the firewall. that would prevent it from gaining enough torque to bend mounting bolts. If you fabbed it just right, you could even put engine mounts between the extended frame and mounting points that you've added. It also wouldn't be too much of a hassle because you've already had to cut out or modify sections of the trunk to squeeze the engine in there. and for you turbo engine users, you could shape it around the plumbing... See attached. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smash.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/welder.gif)

[mattillac]

scott, hows your throttle body clearance? did you have to cut the trunk metal?
i was lurking around on the msefi board and i saw a scott person asking about msefi subby stuff... if that's you, how is your quest for pefi going?

[scotty914]

QUOTE (mattillac @ Jan 8 2005, 02:59 PM)

scott, hows your throttle body clearance? did you have to cut the trunk metal? i was lurking around on the msefi board and i saw a scott person asking about msefi subby stuff... if that's you, how is your quest for pefi going?

yes its me

and untill i try to fire up the suby fi i will leave it. if it gives me fits when running then i will look further at MSII, but till then suby it is.
with trunk clearence issues, i might be able to egt a 90 bend to make it but i doubt it. i plan on building the air filter, and mas in to the rear trunk with the intake breathing from underneith.

and my engine bar will not have any issues with clearence, it almost completely behind the engine.

as for the bar you showed in that link brando, is the one i think would suck because of the torgue. and then i think its like 400 buck. my mount idea has 30 bucks in steel in it, i personally refuse to pay 400 bucks then modify it

[RS22b]

I find this all really fasinating being that i am a 914 owner for quite sometime now and also a Subaru owner since 2001, but had about 10 of them since then.

I am a real Subaru nut being as my daily driver is a 2001 Impreza 2.5RS coupe with a WRX motor, STi tranny, etc.etc.etc.

Also have a 2001 RS coupe Rally car that is running PGT or P2 depending on which organization i am racing with.

Just a heads up for all of you out there that are reading this and thinking of doin a suby swap into your cars.

If you decide to go with the EJ25, make sure you get one that was produced late 99 and up. 2000 and up went over to MAP instead of MAF which makes a bit better in the way of modifying these things. Also in 1999 they decided to make these motors SOHC instead of DOHC. The SOHC's are much better motors then the DOHC's.

The only motors that were good and didnt have any true problems with the DOHC were the turbocharged models.
The only turbo models sold in the US that are worthy of getting would be either the WRX motor= EJ20 or the STi motor= EJ25

Do take notice in when buying these motors that all the motor codes that are on the motors are EJ coded and do not tell of them being NA or Turbo.

EJ25 = STi, 2.5GT(2005+), Forester XT, Baja Turbo, 2.5RS, Outback, Forester, Legacy
EJ22 = Legacy Turbo(1991-93), Legacy, Impreza
EJ20 = WRX and all non-US NA motors
EJ18 = Legacy and Impreza

Please use this as a guidline to purchase your motors. And for any parts and questions about modifying your subie motors goto www.nasioc.com You will find all info ever noted in these motors and others.

Hope this helps anyone.

Billy

[mattillac]

scott, what do you think about cutting and rewelding the intake manifold so that the throttle body faces the front of the motor? do you think it would be in the way of anything else that's on the motor?

for any of the welders on the forum, is it ok to weld cast aluminum? i hear that aluminum isn't the easiest metal to weld, but would it be harder if the aluminum has already been cast as a manifold?

[scotty914]

the only thing that would be in the way is the alt. but it can be relocated, but if i did that i can reverse the manifold. and before people say it, there is a reverse manifold mod but its for the water. i dont want to move the alt because the only place to put it is where the ac compressor is and some day i want to hook it up too.

i could do a top intake ala d jet but it is too close to the engine lid.

[mattillac]

scott, are you saying that you can remove the intake manifold and put it back on so that the throttle body would face the front of the car?

[RS22b]

yes you can do it. All you have to do is move that alt. like he was saying. Most rally cars that have this dont have an AC system and they put the alt just where the AC compressor is.

[mattillac]

i didn't think you could just flip the intake like that. good to know.

hmmm. plenty of room in front of the motor, don't have to cut the trunk wall if i dont mind relocating the alt. subby power is looking more promising. i was thinking of a 13b conversion eventually, but a subby i think would be more reliable.

[Dman]

I have been looking into swaps for a long time, Billy do you think this motor would be a good choice?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...bayphotohosting

[lapuwali]

As stated earlier, the non-turbos are an easier swap than the turbos, as the turbo plumbing really gets in the way. That same Ebay seller has some 2.5 NA engines for sale.

[Mueller]

QUOTE (Dman @ Jan 12 2005, 02:42 PM)

I have been looking into swaps for a long time, Billy do you think this motor would be a good choice? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...bayphotohosting

I hate sellers that are too stupid to put down their location.....that'll make or break a sale.....

sweet little motors....I should have picked a subaru motor instead of the VR6 engine....that sure was a bad choice (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/headbang.gif)

[Dman]

These guys are down south, looks like they have all of them.

http://www.nippon-motors.com/subaru.htm

Does anyone have any expirience with a vendor like this?

[lapuwali]

But you're staying air-cooled, Mike. Just sell the VR6 and start plotting the turbo you'll add to that T4 you're building...

I don't have any direct experience with these "JDM" engine vendors, but the ricer guys use them a great deal. The thing with Japan is there are laws and a culture built up to strongly encourage consumption, so "old" cars (like 5-6 years old) are regularly scrapped. Mileage is low even for that age as no one can drive much there, and certainly not at any real speed. So, they're buying up practically new engines at scrap prices, and shipping them over here by the container load. On top of all that, there are engines available in Japan not available anywhere else. There was a twin-cam VTEC Honda four available there YEARS before the US market got them. The main issue would be parts later, but the engines are cheap enough that you'd not rebuild, just replace.