Roll bar for a street car? |
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Roll bar for a street car? |
CptTripps |
Jan 29 2014, 01:34 PM
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#1
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:: Punch and Pie :: Group: Members Posts: 3,584 Joined: 26-December 04 From: Mentor, OH Member No.: 3,342 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
While talking with my uncle about the build I have underway, he asked a question that I hadn't spent a lot of time considering...what if I roll the thing?
Fair point. I'm going to be well north of 300HP, and while I've upgraded the suspension, chassis and brakes...I haven't put a lot of thought into the cabin. Is there a way to do a roll-bar that would still maintain the "street-ability" of the car, while adding some protection for my noggin? I was thinking about something like the attached photo, with additional tubing added where I have the green. Being able to use the stock seats and seat-belts is important. Does someone make something like this, or am I finding someone local to build me one? I'd be welding it into the car, and on top of the Engman stiffening kit. Attached thumbnail(s) |
Steve |
Jan 29 2014, 01:54 PM
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#2
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,597 Joined: 14-June 03 From: Orange County, CA Member No.: 822 Region Association: Southern California |
The built in roll bar, should be fine if you roll it, unless you have major rust issues. In the early 80's one of my friends went off the mountain side to avoid hitting a truck passing in his lane. The 914 rolled at least five times and the built in roll bar did not collapse. It was a little rounded on the sides and the windshield hoop was also bent. Both the occupants survived with only scratches and bruises. For track use, you might be required to put in a roll bar anyway. For the street and my 3.2, flairs etc, I just went with the Engman kit to strengthen the car.
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stugray |
Jan 29 2014, 02:42 PM
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#3
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,824 Joined: 17-September 09 From: Longmont, CO Member No.: 10,819 Region Association: None |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) You already have a rollbar.
I would consider the stock bar to be better than most cars with roofs. |
r_towle |
Jan 29 2014, 02:52 PM
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#4
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,584 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States |
if you do not plan on wearing a helmet, a stock car is correct.
The issue with a rollbar (at least something to think about) is there is documentation out there that shows you can do more damage to the occupant with the rollbar (hitting your head in a roll over against the roll bar) then any potential savings it might deliver. Abel, my son (Rocket here) rolled his, the roll bar was fine, windshield held up fine...the rest of the car did its job and collapsed, but the passenger compartment is pretty solid if you have no rust. If you are working with an early chassis, I would suggest you upgrade to the 73 or newer doors that do have side impact bars welded in....or modify yours. I looked long and hard before I gave my son that car,,,,cause I figured it might happen. I did not find one wreck that the occupant compartment could not sustain a person.... All of the typical wrecks took the hit fairly well. Now, if you go do a carrera GT type thing....well even the best protection wont help you. Rich |
CptTripps |
Jan 29 2014, 02:56 PM
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#5
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:: Punch and Pie :: Group: Members Posts: 3,584 Joined: 26-December 04 From: Mentor, OH Member No.: 3,342 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Great info guys. I'll skip the extra roll-bar then.
I've got a 75 chassis and was planning on double-checking the welds inside the doors to make sure everything was still solid. I'd rather have a car that was 100lb heavy...and safe. |
r_towle |
Jan 29 2014, 02:57 PM
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#6
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,584 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States |
seems like the common opinion is its less safe without a helmet.
RIch |
Dave_Darling |
Jan 29 2014, 03:46 PM
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#7
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 14,990 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California |
I wonder if adding a doubler to the stock Targa bar would do any good? Sort of like the Engman long kit, but for the Targa bar.
--DD |
SirAndy |
Jan 29 2014, 04:02 PM
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#8
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,658 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
I'm surprised the "you're going to die!" crowd isn't out in force yet.
According to them, a rollbar in a street car is certain death, might as well shoot yourself now ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-2104-1386213123.jpg) |
Steve |
Jan 29 2014, 04:10 PM
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#9
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,597 Joined: 14-June 03 From: Orange County, CA Member No.: 822 Region Association: Southern California |
I'm surprised the "you're going to die!" crowd isn't out in force yet. According to them, a rollbar in a street car is certain death, might as well shoot yourself now ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-2104-1386213123.jpg) A properly padded cage is a diferent story. He only asked about a roll bar, regarding rollovers. In the case of a car accident or running into a rock like that other guy did I would rather have your properly padded cage. |
ThePaintedMan |
Jan 29 2014, 04:14 PM
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#10
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,886 Joined: 6-September 11 From: St. Petersburg, FL Member No.: 13,527 Region Association: South East States |
... along with appropriately adjusted 5 point harnesses to keep your body and skull from flying into said rollbar.
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stugray |
Jan 29 2014, 04:39 PM
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#11
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,824 Joined: 17-September 09 From: Longmont, CO Member No.: 10,819 Region Association: None |
As someone who has personally rolled a car, I refuse to buy a car without roll protection.
i.e: Boxster, Solstice, miata, etc.... However I know for a fact that the flimsy looking roof on a 71 Ghia is plenty strong to support the entire weight of the car and two occupants.... |
jeff |
Jan 29 2014, 05:57 PM
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 252 Joined: 17-January 04 From: thousand oaks,ca Member No.: 1,570 |
I'm not against using a roll bar/cage for the street,
-Use padding on the tubes near your body -have at least 2" of clearance from your Helmet to the bar( this will be about 4" without helmet) Make sure your bar/cage tube are welded in compression& shear.. Be sure your confident about your welding ability, If you have large gaps in your coped tube ends your cage/ bar will be weak Reconsider stock seat belts, if you have a good cage I'd wear harnesses and snug them up good Don't put the dash bar where your knees will hit it ... I can't think of anything else... |
CptTripps |
Jan 29 2014, 06:35 PM
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#13
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:: Punch and Pie :: Group: Members Posts: 3,584 Joined: 26-December 04 From: Mentor, OH Member No.: 3,342 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
I'd thought about maybe working on a reinforcement for the targa bar. Maybe a rectangular piece across the top, contoured to the body. Then two pieces up the sides from inside the targa bar. I'd have to draw it out, but it'd likely be more work than it's worth.
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gryphon68 |
Jan 29 2014, 06:44 PM
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 61 Joined: 2-October 13 From: SE Michigan Member No.: 16,462 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
What about tucking a one piece main hoop in under the targa bar outside the passenger compartment? Run it down to the rear rails and brace forward and rearward. . . .
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carr914 |
Jan 29 2014, 07:49 PM
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#15
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Racer from Birth Group: Members Posts: 118,819 Joined: 2-February 04 From: Tampa,FL Member No.: 1,623 Region Association: South East States |
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damesandhotrods |
Jan 29 2014, 07:58 PM
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#16
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 568 Joined: 26-September 10 From: Santa Cruz California Member No.: 12,218 Region Association: Northern California |
Maybe I’m putting too much faith in Porsche’s engineers, but if the windshield alone can hold up a sedan delivery I am confident the Targa would support the weight of the 914…
Attached image(s) |
jeff |
Jan 29 2014, 08:14 PM
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 252 Joined: 17-January 04 From: thousand oaks,ca Member No.: 1,570 |
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CptTripps |
Jan 29 2014, 08:58 PM
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#18
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:: Punch and Pie :: Group: Members Posts: 3,584 Joined: 26-December 04 From: Mentor, OH Member No.: 3,342 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
One of my favorite episodes. |
TeenerTim |
Jan 30 2014, 09:05 AM
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#19
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 597 Joined: 22-October 07 From: Norfolk,VA Member No.: 8,253 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
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larryM |
Jan 31 2014, 10:35 PM
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#20
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emoze Group: Members Posts: 891 Joined: 1-January 03 From: mid- California Member No.: 65 Region Association: Northern California |
just buy a bolt-in AutoPower
- add the gurney brace if you think you want to be scca legal it significantly stiffens the chassis - you will not regret it or - if you do - it is easy to unbolt & sell . |
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