Which engine, should i purchase? |
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Which engine, should i purchase? |
Cfletch |
Mar 21 2014, 01:02 PM
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 104 Joined: 30-January 14 From: Santa Barbara Member No.: 16,941 Region Association: Southern California |
Im looking for an engine to purchase that will need a rebuild. my car currently has a 1.7 which is anemic because low comp and what not. I'm planning on building up an engine that can hold good power and torque( nothing too stressful at all) but am not sure what size i should go for? which would be best 1.7, 1.8, or a 2.0? from what i know the actual power differences in these engines is so minuscule as it is.
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Spoke |
Mar 21 2014, 01:42 PM
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#2
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Jerry Group: Members Posts: 6,979 Joined: 29-October 04 From: Allentown, PA Member No.: 3,031 Region Association: None |
Go 2.0 or larger. Remember: "There's no replacement for displacement".
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Dave_Darling |
Mar 21 2014, 04:20 PM
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#3
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 14,986 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California |
What are your constraints? Do you need reliability? Longevity? All-out performance? Budget-friendly? Conforming to the rules for a particular racing class? Other?
Lots of possible engines for the 914. Many of the ones that fit nicely aren't even air-cooled... And lots of ways to build a VW Type IV that can meet various goals. The short answer, which assumes way too many things about your goals: Send McMark $5K and your core motor and get back a 2056cc mill that puts out over 100 honest HP. --DD |
Mblizzard |
Mar 21 2014, 04:32 PM
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#4
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,033 Joined: 28-January 13 From: Knoxville Tn Member No.: 15,438 Region Association: South East States |
Go 2.0 or larger. Remember: "There's no replacement for displacement". I was always told "the only thing that beats cubic inches is cubic dollars." I would go for the 2.0 with 96mm pistons. Have very good performance without a huge sacrifice in drive ability. Yep can't second guess the McMark recommendation for a build. I have one from him. |
McMark |
Mar 21 2014, 06:47 PM
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#5
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
All the cases are the same. You can build a nice 1911 with what you already have. You can add 2.0 crank and rods to go bigger. And you can add 2.0 (3-bolt) heads to make better power. But each step up costs more (not surprisingly). So the best approach is like Dave mentioned, figure out where your desires and budget intersect and work towards that.
It's easy to dream big, but too often cars end up on jackstands forever because of it. I'm guilty of it myself. |
PanelBilly |
Mar 21 2014, 06:50 PM
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#6
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 23-July 06 From: Kent, Wa Member No.: 6,488 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
What are your constraints? Do you need reliability? Longevity? All-out performance? Budget-friendly? Conforming to the rules for a particular racing class? Other? Lots of possible engines for the 914. Many of the ones that fit nicely aren't even air-cooled... And lots of ways to build a VW Type IV that can meet various goals. The short answer, which assumes way too many things about your goals: Send McMark $5K and your core motor and get back a 2056cc mill that puts out over 100 honest HP. --DD And $5 grand for an engine is a steal. |
Cfletch |
Mar 21 2014, 09:23 PM
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 104 Joined: 30-January 14 From: Santa Barbara Member No.: 16,941 Region Association: Southern California |
im looking for something more budget friendly and would like some decent performance along with it. Im just not sure exactly where to begin on this since it would be my 1st time attempting anything of the sort.
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messix |
Mar 21 2014, 09:36 PM
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#8
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AKA "CLUTCH KILLER"! Group: Members Posts: 6,995 Joined: 14-April 05 From: between shit kickers and pinky lifters/ puget sound wa.north of Seattle south of Canada Member No.: 3,931 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
if your on a budget first order jake rabys video on type 4 engine rebuild.
then tear apart your engine and check the crank, rods and do all the checks on the case. then you can decide if just ordering a 1911cc kit and a fresh set of bearings and seals and the 1911 kit will get what you want. |
patrick3000 |
Mar 24 2014, 04:26 PM
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 19-July 06 From: Maryland Member No.: 6,468 |
All the cases are the same. You can build a nice 1911 with what you already have. You can add 2.0 crank and rods to go bigger. And you can add 2.0 (3-bolt) heads to make better power. But each step up costs more (not surprisingly). So the best approach is like Dave mentioned, figure out where your desires and budget intersect and work towards that. It's easy to dream big, but too often cars end up on jackstands forever because of it. I'm guilty of it myself. if your on a budget first order jake rabys video on type 4 engine rebuild. then tear apart your engine and check the crank, rods and do all the checks on the case. then you can decide if just ordering a 1911cc kit and a fresh set of bearings and seals and the 1911 kit will get what you want. Tell us more about the 1911 option, details please. |
dirk9141973 |
Mar 24 2014, 05:15 PM
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#10
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Unregistered |
All the cases are the same. You can build a nice 1911 with what you already have. You can add 2.0 crank and rods to go bigger. And you can add 2.0 (3-bolt) heads to make better power. But each step up costs more (not surprisingly). So the best approach is like Dave mentioned, figure out where your desires and budget intersect and work towards that. It's easy to dream big, but too often cars end up on jackstands forever because of it. I'm guilty of it myself. if your on a budget first order jake rabys video on type 4 engine rebuild. then tear apart your engine and check the crank, rods and do all the checks on the case. then you can decide if just ordering a 1911cc kit and a fresh set of bearings and seals and the 1911 kit will get what you want. Tell us more about the 1911 option, details please. :agree:The only difference in 1911 and 2056 is money and parts !! I'm very happy with the 2056 only issue is extra cooling. The Rabys video is easy to follow another good tool is the one by van ? On you tube. Have fun!! |
messix |
Mar 24 2014, 05:36 PM
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#11
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AKA "CLUTCH KILLER"! Group: Members Posts: 6,995 Joined: 14-April 05 From: between shit kickers and pinky lifters/ puget sound wa.north of Seattle south of Canada Member No.: 3,931 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
a 1911cc is a 1.7/1.8 [66mm stroke] made larger with a set of larger cylinders and pistons 96mm. you can take you cylinders to a machine shop and have them bored to the over sized spec for just a little less than buying new ones and giving that you have original German cylinders that is the preferred method because they are better quality.
the 2056 is a larger bored 2.0 with the same methods as above [96x71mm]. |
Dave_Darling |
Mar 24 2014, 06:41 PM
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#12
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 14,986 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California |
Note that you can take 1.8 liter cylinders (originally 93mm bore) to the machinist and have them bored. Not the 1.7 liter ones which were only 90mm bore; they'll be very thin when finished and there are good chances you won't be happy with the result after a while. You can also use 2.0 cylinders (94mm bore) to make some 96es out of.
Note that if you have 1.7 heads, you need to have them cut to accept either 1.8 or 2.0 cylinders, as the sealing area on the latter heads is larger. --DD |
malcolm2 |
Mar 24 2014, 09:19 PM
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#13
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,745 Joined: 31-May 11 From: Nashville Member No.: 13,139 Region Association: South East States |
Tell us more about the 1911 option, details please. There are tables, calculators, HP graphs all over the web and many posts about the conversion, let's see if I can remember and add something new to the conversation: 1.7 liter is 1670-ish cc? has 66mm crank and 90 mm pistons (66 x 90) 1.8 liter is 1756 cc (66 x 93) again crank x pistons 2.0 liter is 1980-ish cc (71 x 93?) 1911 cc conversion is (66 x 96) 2056 cc conversion is (71 x 96) The 71mm crank has smaller rod journals and they are offset. So changing cranks increases cost cause you need new rods. My thought was if you are buying new pistons and cylinders anyway, go ahead and get 96mm. As Dave said the 1.7 heads will probably need to be cut for those to fit, but you should get your heads repaired anyway, freshen up the valves and other goodies on the heads. As a side note the 2.0 valves are bigger and have the plugs in a different place, so your tins will need replacing or at least some welding and hole cutting. I used the "while your in there plan" on my heads and had the 1.8 heads ported for 2.0 sized valves. No need to change my tins that way. I think that is it... But don't forget to replace the oil galley plugs! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) |
larryM |
Mar 24 2014, 11:19 PM
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#14
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emoze Group: Members Posts: 891 Joined: 1-January 03 From: mid- California Member No.: 65 Region Association: Northern California |
cheap solution: go to pick'n'pull and get a 2.0 VW Bus motor for about !50 or less
now you have a type-4 2.0 case, crank, cylinders, etc - throw away the bus heads ( bus heads have square exhaust ports) & toss the dished bus pistons buy a set of stock or euro 914- 2.0 pistons have your 1.7 heads reworked by FAT or some other VW outfit that does this routinely |
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