LEDs For Front Turnsignal Bucket |
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LEDs For Front Turnsignal Bucket |
Spoke |
Aug 30 2014, 10:26 PM
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#101
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Jerry Group: Members Posts: 6,964 Joined: 29-October 04 From: Allentown, PA Member No.: 3,031 Region Association: None |
I picked up an EP26 flasher today at my FLAPS. It is rated for LEDs and 2-6 lamps.
I found it would not blink with just one of my front bucket LEDs on it. When open circuited (no load), 49A which goes to the turnsignal bulbs was sitting at about 7.5V with 12.6V applied to the flasher. At 7.5V, the LED board does not have any current draw. The LEDs need about 8.4V to start turning on. I did find that with a load of at least 4k ohms, the flasher would flash normally. This is about only 3ma load. Still need to study this a bit more. |
orthobiz |
Aug 31 2014, 09:45 PM
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#102
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 8-January 07 From: Cadillac, Michigan Member No.: 7,438 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
A long thread. So the final product is not ready to purchase yet, right??
Paul |
Spoke |
Sep 1 2014, 06:26 PM
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#103
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Jerry Group: Members Posts: 6,964 Joined: 29-October 04 From: Allentown, PA Member No.: 3,031 Region Association: None |
A long thread. So the final product is not ready to purchase yet, right?? Paul Still working out some issues. At this point, 2 items need to be ironed out: 1) Blanking: several folks had shown interest in a blanking circuit for Euro lenses such that the white running light turns off when the turnsignal is activated. This is done with many late model vehicles with running lights near the turnsignals. I have a circuit to do this so I will run a couple more boards with this circuit to test it out. 2) Compatible flasher: For those with front and rear LED turnsignals, it is most likely that the standard flasher will either hyperflash (flash real fast), not flash at all, or not flash the dash indicator. Front LEDs aren't too useful if the flasher doesn't flash. I've tested one flasher (EP26) and it works well only a minimum 4k ohm resistor is across the LED turnsignal. |
Spoke |
Sep 17 2014, 12:19 PM
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#104
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Jerry Group: Members Posts: 6,964 Joined: 29-October 04 From: Allentown, PA Member No.: 3,031 Region Association: None |
I'm still testing flashers. Found an EP36 LED-compatible flasher at AutoZone.
AutoZone EP36 Flasher This one works well with the front LED board without any load resistors. It does not have the K or C spade for the dash indicator light. It has 49 (Battery), 49a (lights), and 31 (ground). As far as the blanking is concerned, I have a circuit designed and the board laid out. I will run a couple more of these boards to test the blanking. Still working on the clips for the front buckets. should be just like the rear lights and require no mechanical changes to the bucket. Attached thumbnail(s) |
Spoke |
Sep 17 2014, 12:47 PM
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#105
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Jerry Group: Members Posts: 6,964 Joined: 29-October 04 From: Allentown, PA Member No.: 3,031 Region Association: None |
Double Post; Post whore.
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Spoke |
Sep 17 2014, 12:48 PM
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#106
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Jerry Group: Members Posts: 6,964 Joined: 29-October 04 From: Allentown, PA Member No.: 3,031 Region Association: None |
About the flasher, I haven't found any flashers with the K/C spade for the dash light. The workaround for this is different for early and late gauges.
For early gauges with L & R indicators, the common wire will be taken off of K and tied to ground. For the later gauges with one indicator, that wire will be connected to the 49a lead. |
Gary |
Sep 18 2014, 07:21 PM
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#107
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 744 Joined: 12-January 03 From: Mount Airy, MD Member No.: 134 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
About the flasher, I haven't found any flashers with the K/C spade for the dash light. The workaround for this is different for early and late gauges. For early gauges with L & R indicators, the common wire will be taken off of K and tied to ground. For the later gauges with one indicator, that wire will be connected to the 49a lead. Would the CF18-08 on this page help? It has a turn signal spade. |
Spoke |
Sep 22 2014, 08:37 PM
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#108
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Jerry Group: Members Posts: 6,964 Joined: 29-October 04 From: Allentown, PA Member No.: 3,031 Region Association: None |
Thanks. Looks like that one may work but it does not have the same spade connectors as in the 914. I'm trying to make this as easy as possible to change out the relay with a replacement that could connect to the existing connectors. |
Spoke |
Sep 22 2014, 08:50 PM
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#109
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Jerry Group: Members Posts: 6,964 Joined: 29-October 04 From: Allentown, PA Member No.: 3,031 Region Association: None |
Yet another update.
I've added a circuit to blank out the running lights for Euro lens configuration. Here's the circuitry added to do the blanking. Not seen in this view are the 2 TVS (Transient Voltage Suppression diodes) needed to protect this circuitry. I'm running a couple more prototypes to make sure the circuit works as designed. The circuit works like this: a comparator senses the turnsignal voltage and turns off the running lights. An RC discharge circuit keeps the running lights off between the blinking of the turnsignals. The timing of the RC circuit keeps the running lights off for about 1 second after the last turnsignal blink. This is slightly different from modern autos since they have overall control of the lights and can turn on the running lights as soon as the turnsignal arm is released. This application will have about a 1 second delay till the running lights come back on. The comparator makes the on/off transition of the running LEDs instantaneously. The comparator controls a FET which does the actual LED current switching. |
Firstcar |
Sep 22 2014, 09:04 PM
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#110
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Obsessive amateur mechanic Group: Members Posts: 97 Joined: 17-March 11 From: MA -South Shore Member No.: 12,831 Region Association: North East States |
Yet another update. I've added a circuit to blank out the running lights for Euro lens configuration. Here's the circuitry added to do the blanking. Not seen in this view are the 2 TVS (Transient Voltage Suppression diodes) needed to protect this circuitry. I'm running a couple more prototypes to make sure the circuit works as designed. The circuit works like this: a comparator senses the turnsignal voltage and turns off the running lights. An RC discharge circuit keeps the running lights off between the blinking of the turnsignals. The timing of the RC circuit keeps the running lights off for about 1 second after the last turnsignal blink. This is slightly different from modern autos since they have overall control of the lights and can turn on the running lights as soon as the turnsignal arm is released. This application will have about a 1 second delay till the running lights come back on. The comparator makes the on/off transition of the running LEDs instantaneously. The comparator controls a FET which does the actual LED current switching. Can't wait to see your video of the finished board with a Euro lense! Really great design. I'm looking forward to going all LED. |
Spoke |
Sep 22 2014, 09:11 PM
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#111
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Jerry Group: Members Posts: 6,964 Joined: 29-October 04 From: Allentown, PA Member No.: 3,031 Region Association: None |
I've located 2 LED-compatible flasher relays that work with the front/rear LEDs.
When some folks replaced their rear turnsignal bulbs with LEDs, they experienced some flasher issues from not blinking at all to the dash indicator lamps not flashing. This incompatibility of older flasher relays with LED replacement bulbs is well known in the automotive arena. When the front turnsignal bulbs are replaced with LEDs, the 914 flasher may or may not work. The 914 flasher may have to be changed to use the front LEDs especially if there are LEDs on the rear turnsignals. The goal to changing the flasher is to make it as simple as possible. No wire cutting or splicing, simply pull the old flasher and install the new flasher. This will still be a pain in the ass as the flasher sits above the fuse panel and the fuse panel will need to be lowered to do the swap. Because early/late tachs have different indicator bulbs (early has L & R; late has a single bulb), different flasher functions are necessary. The EP36 is available at AutoZone and AdvanceAuto and would be used for early tachs. This one has power (49), turnsignal lamp (49a), and ground (31). There will be a wire change although because the EP36 does not have a K/C output like the 914 flasher. Thus the common wire from the dash indicators would be attached to ground on the flasher. A 3-way adapter will allow the normal ground and dash indicator common to both connect to the 31 lug. The FL3-RED is available online at superbrightleds.com and would be used for late tachs with a single dash indicator. This flasher has a "P" connection which is for the "Pilot" or dash indicator. Interestingly this flasher does not have a ground connection. I tested this flasher with my front LED board and it does work. |
StratPlayer |
Sep 23 2014, 04:33 PM
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#112
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StratPlayer Group: Members Posts: 3,261 Joined: 27-December 02 From: SLC, Utah Member No.: 27 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
So the late model cars need to purchase the red flasher in order to get the front lights to work properly correct?
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VaccaRabite |
Sep 23 2014, 06:46 PM
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#113
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En Garde! Group: Admin Posts: 13,405 Joined: 15-December 03 From: Dallastown, PA Member No.: 1,435 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
This is way cool. When my car is closer to being done and I order my rears, I'm going to want a set of fronts as well.
Zach |
mepstein |
Sep 23 2014, 07:40 PM
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#114
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914-6 GT in waiting Group: Members Posts: 19,142 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE Member No.: 10,825 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Another cool thing to add to the build list. Sigh....
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Spoke |
Sep 23 2014, 08:13 PM
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#115
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Jerry Group: Members Posts: 6,964 Joined: 29-October 04 From: Allentown, PA Member No.: 3,031 Region Association: None |
So the late model cars need to purchase the red flasher in order to get the front lights to work properly correct? I'm not sure what will happen when front and rear are LEDs. If someone installs the LEDs, I need to make sure they will work properly. One can pre-test the functionality of their flasher by removing any bulbs that will be replaced by LEDs. This will simulate a very light load. If everything flashes correctly, then no changes need to be made. The 914 flasher relay doesn't flash the dash indicator under light load which is what happens when the ebrake is pulled or MC warning switch is active. |
Spoke |
Sep 23 2014, 08:15 PM
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#116
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Jerry Group: Members Posts: 6,964 Joined: 29-October 04 From: Allentown, PA Member No.: 3,031 Region Association: None |
This is way cool. When my car is closer to being done and I order my rears, I'm going to want a set of fronts as well. Zach Let me know when I can start holding my breath on this one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) BTW, I will be offering the rear LED boards as well as the front LEDs. |
chads74 |
Sep 24 2014, 07:36 AM
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#117
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Member Group: Members Posts: 386 Joined: 13-March 12 From: Tampa, FL Member No.: 14,252 Region Association: South East States |
I am excited to add the front LED's with the rear that are already installed. Rear are working great, I love driving at night and seeing the road lit up behind me.
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Spoke |
Oct 4 2014, 04:01 PM
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#118
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Jerry Group: Members Posts: 6,964 Joined: 29-October 04 From: Allentown, PA Member No.: 3,031 Region Association: None |
I think I finally have a clip design that should work well for the front LEDs. This prototype is made out of brass but the production clip will be plastic.
The idea of this clip is to have the clip span the entire depth of the bucket and be held in place with the lens cover. The board will screw onto the shoulder. Like the rear LED boards, this one you will screw the clips to the board then insert the board in the enclosure. |
Spoke |
Oct 4 2014, 04:04 PM
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#119
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Jerry Group: Members Posts: 6,964 Joined: 29-October 04 From: Allentown, PA Member No.: 3,031 Region Association: None |
I've got the 2nd prototype board with the blanking circuitry. The blanking circuitry is the jumble of pads that can be seen on the bottom board between the notches in the board.
I'm getting the components next week from Digikey and will build up and test the boards. Attached thumbnail(s) |
Spoke |
Oct 4 2014, 04:08 PM
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#120
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Jerry Group: Members Posts: 6,964 Joined: 29-October 04 From: Allentown, PA Member No.: 3,031 Region Association: None |
I was following this Nissan (with LED taillights) the other day and I noticed one of the LEDs was out.
So much for the propaganda we hear about 50k + hours of lifetime for LEDs. I kinda doubt that you could change just one LED in the array. I could be wrong though. Attached thumbnail(s) |
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