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> Header for conversion, Pretty confusing vendors
worn
post Apr 21 2014, 08:42 PM
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I am installing a 3.2 porsche flat 6 air cooled in a 1972 914 body. So far so good. I would prefer heat but the offerings seem sort of dismal. Also while there appear to be two main styles of headers, I suspect it is because some vendors just pate a 911 picture in the link.
Any advice.please!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)

It is getting that far along. Soon I will be beating the oil tank into form. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
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GeorgeRud
post Apr 21 2014, 09:03 PM
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Contact Brad Mayeur in E. Peoria, IL (914Ltd). He has done these conversions and may be able to help you out with some headers and other correct parts you may need.
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Steve
post Apr 21 2014, 09:20 PM
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QUOTE(worn @ Apr 21 2014, 07:42 PM) *

I am installing a 3.2 porsche flat 6 air cooled in a 1972 914 body. So far so good. I would prefer heat but the offerings seem sort of dismal. Also while there appear to be two main styles of headers, I suspect it is because some vendors just pate a 911 picture in the link.
Any advice.please!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)

It is getting that far along. Soon I will be beating the oil tank into form. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)


IMHO For a 3.2 your best choice is MSDS 1 5/8" headers. He is a member and vendor on this site. For a muffler... The list is various. Bursch, Triad, sport, stock, etc.
http://www.msdsinc.com/company.html
For heaters you can pay three times as much as the headers and get BB heat exchangers. Poor heat but they do work. Factory heat exchanger is what I am running, but they are expensive and restrictive since they are only 1.5" headers.
PMS sells the BB (billy boat) as well as others.
http://www.patrickmotorsports.com/
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worn
post Apr 22 2014, 09:07 AM
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QUOTE(Steve @ Apr 21 2014, 07:20 PM) *

IMHO For a 3.2 your best choice is MSDS 1 5/8" headers. He is a member and vendor on this site. For a muffler... The list is various. Bursch, Triad, sport, stock, etc.
http://www.msdsinc.com/company.html
For heaters you can pay three times as much as the headers and get BB heat exchangers. Poor heat but they do work. Factory heat exchanger is what I am running, but they are expensive and restrictive since they are only 1.5" headers.
PMS sells the BB (billy boat) as well as others.
http://www.patrickmotorsports.com/


I am willing to (Ouch that hurts) spend the money on the Boat heat exchangers but of late I have not heard great things about heat (which is the point of the whole thing) and fit. Any one with experience? I actually want to travel in the car when it is finished and I am not planning to be exclusively in so Cal. That means a working defrost would be really helpful and having driven a 914 in freezing weather, some heat would be nice too.
I had reached the conclusion that heat would need to be a DIY installation. I run a CO detector in my 914-4 cabin and I like panel beating, so fabbing a heat box is within reach and not completely suicidal.
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Steve
post Apr 22 2014, 01:28 PM
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I live in so cal. I talked to guys with B&B and they said its fine for so cal and better than nothing. They say it takes the edge off. My six heat exchangers were given to me by a concourse guy that bought new ones. This was back in the early 90's. All I did was get them jet hot coated and they are functionally fine. The factory exchangers will roast you. There are other options. Do a search. There are two companies in England that also make them, but there still expensive.
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ConeDodger
post Apr 22 2014, 07:33 PM
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You could use the MSDS headers and have heat exchangers built for them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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patssle
post Apr 22 2014, 07:45 PM
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I haven't used my MSDS yet but they fit perfectly on my 3.0L and have solid construction. I'd buy them again!
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post Apr 22 2014, 10:15 PM
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My 6 conversion came with new in box Bursch headers and Bursch 914/6 muffler.
I got the headers Jet Hot coated before I put them on but when I went to install the muffler I noticed that the header collector was 2 inch but the muffler inlets were only 1 1/2 inch. You'd think that the same company would have compatible parts?
I ended up saying screw my neighbors and put on megaphones.
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r_towle
post Apr 23 2014, 06:44 AM
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Call MSDS.

See if he has any ideas....
He is more than capable of fabricating heater boxes, he has the jigs for the headers, and he is a 914 guy.....so it will work and fit when done.

Might come up with a reasonably priced solution for you.
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scotty b
post Apr 23 2014, 06:48 AM
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FWIW :

I've heard quite a few complaints about the BB systems from 914, 911 and 951 guys.
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worn
post Apr 23 2014, 08:41 AM
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QUOTE(r_towle @ Apr 23 2014, 04:44 AM) *

Call MSDS.

See if he has any ideas....
He is more than capable of fabricating heater boxes, he has the jigs for the headers, and he is a 914 guy.....so it will work and fit when done.

Might come up with a reasonably priced solution for you.



Thanks. Sounds like MSDS is the ticket. I can fab the boxes easy enough, but I don't know how to bend the headers and I don't want a weldingstein header made out of bends from Summit or Jegs. I also appreciate the BB comments. They look great but looks are only 90% of life. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Which has left me out repeatedly...
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Maltese Falcon
post Apr 24 2014, 09:37 PM
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QUOTE(worn @ Apr 23 2014, 07:41 AM) *

QUOTE(r_towle @ Apr 23 2014, 04:44 AM) *

Call MSDS.

See if he has any ideas....
He is more than capable of fabricating heater boxes, he has the jigs for the headers, and he is a 914 guy.....so it will work and fit when done.

Might come up with a reasonably priced solution for you.



Thanks. Sounds like MSDS is the ticket. I can fab the boxes easy enough, but I don't know how to bend the headers and I don't want a weldingstein header made out of bends from Summit or Jegs. I also appreciate the BB comments. They look great but looks are only 90% of life. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Which has left me out repeatedly...


So I figured out that you are the infamous Madison, Wi. client that ordered today (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)
914 World member discount applied to your parts !
Marty
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larryM
post Apr 25 2014, 05:02 PM
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deal of the century right here
914-6 headers cheap

or - i have a set like this style in 1-5/8 with ceramic coating - FS - $750 plus ship
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914forme
post Apr 25 2014, 06:07 PM
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Many a header have been built by many a people for race cars using mandrel bends. I would vote for MSDS. But for somethings, welding up a set of mandrel bends is the only way t get it done.

Attached Image

This is from an MK1 GT-40
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r_towle
post Apr 26 2014, 05:54 AM
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QUOTE(914forme @ Apr 25 2014, 08:07 PM) *

Many a header have been built by many a people for race cars using mandrel bends. I would vote for MSDS. But for somethings, welding up a set of mandrel bends is the only way t get it done.

Attached Image

This is from an MK1 GT-40

That is one way to melt some fiberglass.
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Maltese Falcon
post Apr 30 2014, 10:19 PM
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Worn, your msds headers are on their way...check your pm for fedex track #
Enjoy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)
Marty
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GeorgeRud
post May 1 2014, 10:44 AM
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If you do end up gabbing some outer envelopes for the headers, please post pics as a lot of members would be interested in seeing how they're made. Only suggestion is that you not weld the outer envelope to the header as that is supposed to create a potential weak spot that can crack. There is a reason that all the factory and SSI heat exchangers are not welded.
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worn
post May 1 2014, 01:52 PM
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QUOTE(GeorgeRud @ May 1 2014, 08:44 AM) *

If you do end up gabbing some outer envelopes for the headers, please post pics as a lot of members would be interested in seeing how they're made. Only suggestion is that you not weld the outer envelope to the header as that is supposed to create a potential weak spot that can crack. There is a reason that all the factory and SSI heat exchangers are not welded.


In my experience they put in a couple of little tacks to maintain position. I do want heat, but having the headers perform properly is more important. On the '76 2056 I am running heat exchangers I fabbed the top ends for (where they go to the flapper boxes), so I had em completely disassembled. I used Eastwood high temp paint inside and a bit of fiberglass to keep them from rattling. After the paint cooked so far so good. But I also have a CO alarm from Walmart. Route 66 purchase.

Also - Thanks Marty. I am psyched. I expect grace in form. And also it is one more thing checked off. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)
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worn
post May 1 2014, 01:54 PM
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QUOTE(914forme @ Apr 25 2014, 04:07 PM) *

Many a header have been built by many a people for race cars using mandrel bends. I would vote for MSDS. But for somethings, welding up a set of mandrel bends is the only way t get it done

This is from an MK1 GT-40

OK. I am in for the GT-40. No question about it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)
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Maltese Falcon
post May 2 2014, 11:14 AM
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One of my all time favorite header designs on Bob Tullius' #44 Jaguar v12.
Tri-Y design, lots of torque. Bad A$$ engine ! Rick Knoop recently restored 2 of these cars at his shop in Apple Valley.Attached Image
Marty
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