Starter issues, removed it during rear suspension rebuild and now will not work Options

[rgolia]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) I complete the rebuild on the rear suspension and now the starter does not work. It does not make a sound...dead. I even installed the replacement starter I had laying around (high torque unit from pelican), and it does not work. What did I screw up this time? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif)

[SirAndy]

Did you forget to reattach the ground strap on the transmission?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[rgolia]

nope that is still attached. I did not remove the ground strap I only disconnected the positive side of the battery. What did I fry now? I am starting to think this happened to me once before. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[SirAndy]

I only disconnected the positive side of the battery.

That's a bad idea. You always want to either remove the ground or both, but never just the positive.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[rgolia]

I am full of bad ideas....the first one is thinking I have a clue about working on my 914, the second one is working on my 914. In any event I now have a dead something. Did I cook the ignition switch? I need to spend more time at the bar and less time under the 914.

[Tom]

RG,
Have someone else turn the key and measure the voltage at the solenoid big yellow wire. Be careful; brake on, in neutral etc. If you are getting less than 9 volts, the solenoid will not work. Many connections between the battery positive and the solenoid. Didn't you put in one of my fuse kits? Check for a blown fuse.
Tom

[rgolia]

I did put in one of your fuse kits and I will do that test but I will check the fuses first.

[stugray]

That's a bad idea. You always want to either remove the ground or both, but never just the positive.

Why is that? That is the first Ive heard that.
I always only remove the Positive side unless I am removing the whole battery.

It should not hurt anything.

[SirAndy]

That's a bad idea. You always want to either remove the ground or both, but never just the positive.

Why is that? That is the first Ive heard that.
I always only remove the Positive side unless I am removing the whole battery.

It should not hurt anything.

Think about it. Ground still attached to battery, hot disconnected (and now usually exposed!).
You fumble with a screwdriver or wrench and shorten the hot to the chassis, instant fireworks!


If you disconnect the ground but leave the positive on, you can put your wrench between the hot and chassis all day long and nothing will happen...
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[toolguy]

If you are by yourself, remove the yellow lead at the solenoid, and temporary add a lead from it to the drivers seat. .reconnect the battery, put your meter between that lead end and any frame ground and turn the ign switch to 'start' position. . If no battery, start tracing the yellow lead circuit back for an open. . maybe something easy like the seat belt interface under the seat. .
Electrically, it makes no difference whihc battery cable you remove, but for safety Andy's explanation is the correct reason, and the general 'in the automotive trade' rule is to remove the ground. .It's almost always only one cable while the positive terminal has multiple 'red' cables. .

[Tom]

Andy is so right, but there is more! Batteries store a lot of energy and can be very dangerous.
Say you are removing the positive battery terminal with the negative hooked up still, and already have the bolt broken loose, but not quite loose enough. As you go to remove the wrench, it slips and moves over to contact ground. You now have the perfect storm. The wrench has about 400-500 amps running through it. Next you grab the wrench to remove it. It is welded and now you have a very serious burn to your hand. All of those amps have produced some serious heat!
ALWAYS, ALWAYS remove the negative battery terminal first. I have witnessed this happening twice. Once the guy broke the wrench loose and saved the battery but received a nasty burn that took weeks to heal. Second time the wrench was welded so well to the chassis it could not be removed and the battery exploded. This was when I was a child and knew no better or I would have informed them to stop.
I go even further. I have a special fully insulated wrench ( except for the end that fits the bolt) dedicated only for removing the battery terminals.
Tom

[Java2570]

Andy is so right, but there is more! Batteries store a lot of energy and can be very dangerous.
Say you are removing the positive battery terminal with the negative hooked up still, and already have the bolt broken loose, but not quite loose enough. As you go to remove the wrench, it slips and moves over to contact ground. You now have the perfect storm. The wrench has about 400-500 amps running through it. Next you grab the wrench to remove it. It is welded and now you have a very serious burn to your hand. All of those amps have produced some serious heat!
ALWAYS, ALWAYS remove the negative battery terminal first. I have witnessed this happening twice. Once the guy broke the wrench loose and saved the battery but received a nasty burn that took weeks to heal. Second time the wrench was welded so well to the chassis it could not be removed and the battery exploded. This was when I was a child and knew no better or I would have informed them to stop.
I go even further. I have a special fully insulated wrench ( except for the end that fits the bolt) dedicated only for removing the battery terminals.
Tom

I had this happen when I owned my first Karmann Ghia.....just barely brushed the wrench across the
terminals while loosening the positive side.....I've never dropped a wrench so damn fast! Ever since
that, I always remove ground side first and almost always remove positive also. I also watched
in horror as an idiot friend of mine spot welded his meter probes to a live 220 line that was hanging
bare in a building we were working in.....he got really lucky that he didn't get fried!

[stugray]

I understood the safety aspect.
I just thought people were saying it could damage something.

Points taken. My son shorted to the battery + while putting the velocity stacks on the pass side weber.

He just stood there watching as the 10mm open end began to glow.
I had to knock it loose with whatever tool was closest.

Reached down to pick up the wrench about a minute later and it still burned me.

[Cap'n Krusty]

That's a bad idea. You always want to either remove the ground or both, but never just the positive.

Why is that? That is the first Ive heard that.
I always only remove the Positive side unless I am removing the whole battery.

It should not hurt anything.

It's a standard procedure throughout the industry. I disremember the true reason, other than what's posted above, but I think any spark you may get during either removal or reconnection is less apt to cause a hydrogen explosion. I could very well be wrong on that .................

The Cap'n

[stugray]

It's a standard procedure throughout the industry.

I understand that.

I thought that it was being suggested that unhooking the + instead of the - first somehow broke the starter.

[rgolia]

great info on disconnecting the battery..so neg first off and lat on.....never knew that. Now back to my problem, I check the fuse unit that ai installed as provided by Tom. No blown fuses. Next I will do the voltage test on the yellow wire and recheck the seat belt cut off under the pass seat. If none of that works i sell the car.............only kidding. I will report back

[McMark]

Did you reconnect the yellow wire to the TOP of the starter? There is often a connection at the bottom of the solenoid and that's not where it goes. I see it all the time.

[Kansas 914]

Did you reconnect the yellow wire to the TOP of the starter? There is often a connection at the bottom of the solenoid and that's not where it goes. I see it all the time.

Mark - I bet you nailed it!

[rgolia]

nope that is not it. Yellow wire connected to the top. still need to do the voltage check. I will hit it this weekend. I have one of those remote starter buttons, but forgot where to connect the two leads. Is it worth giving that a try?

[stugray]

If you short the big black wire (from the battery) to the "Yellow wire goes here" terminal, the starter should try to crank the engine.