No start/pertronix Options

[drbill]

Well, I decided to do a major service on this car. 1974 2.0. I've adjusted the valves, replaced the spark plugs NGK BP5ES, gapped to 0.028, replaced the distributor cap, rotor, spark plug wires and installed a Pertronix ignitor.
I've double checked to make sure HT leads attached for proper firing order, battery is charged. I removed #4 plug wire and plug to check for spark: got spark.

Any help? What's a logical sequence to troubleshoot?
Thanks,
Bill (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[Mike Bellis]

Try turning the distributor. If you have spark and the firing order is correct, then it comes down to timing. The point make/brake may be different than the pertronix.

Assuming things like fuel are good and no other changes have been made.

[Mblizzard]

Did you use the correct spacing between the module and the magnet?

[drbill]

I used the spacer that Pertronix provided. 0.030 I think.

I did nothing to the fuel system, all injectors plugged in. Gas in the tank.

I'll fiddle with the dizzy, but since wasn't moved, should not be a factor???
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[mskala]

I used the spacer that Pertronix provided. 0.030 I think.

I did nothing to the fuel system, all injectors plugged in. Gas in the tank.

I'll fiddle with the dizzy, but since wasn't moved, should not be a factor???
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

Even if the pertronix comes with a bracket that uses the original hole in
the plate, I'm not sure they put the magnets and sensor in exactly the
same places relative to the cam. You need to check the timing with a
timing light the normal way to double-check. Once you get it right it
should stay and you won't ever need to worry about it again.

[stugray]

You can still do the static timing method with the pertronix.

And the most common mistake is hooking up the pertronix like the points.
It is a little different.
Pertronix Red to Coil +, other pertronix wire to coil -
Pertronix case needs good ground to dist points plate

[0396]

Great info I can come back to when the day comes time for my upgrade.

[drbill]

Thanks, guys. I did double check the connections for the pertronix. Sounds like the consensus is to move the dizzy some and get it started, then can set the timing just right.

[Cap'n Krusty]

Great info I can come back to when the day comes time for my upgrade.

"Upgrade". A BS word, grossly over-and mis-used. No way a "Pertronix" is an "upgrade". Be sure you keep a set of points and a condenser in your glovebox.

The Cap'n

[Rand]

Great info I can come back to when the day comes time for my upgrade.

"Upgrade". A BS word, grossly over-and mis-used. No way a "Pertronix" is an "upgrade". Be sure you keep a set of points and a condenser in your glovebox.

The Cap'n

Pertronix should have never been brought up. Pertronix is a nice upgrade. You love adjusting dwell. He said there was spark.

It ain't spark. (If he was speaking true) Therefor ain't Pertronix.

[Rand]

Spark, fuel, compression, timing......

[Dave_Darling]

Fuel smell at the tailpipe after cranking the starter?

Lots of fuel, maybe?

Check for wires that got unplugged when you were moving other stuff around. Prime suspects are:
- CHT sensor wire
- MPS plug
- Trigger points plug

--DD

[ClayPerrine]

"Upgrade". A BS word, grossly over-and mis-used. No way a "Pertronix" is an "upgrade". Be sure you keep a set of points and a condenser in your glovebox.
The Cap'n

Cap'n,

99% of the time we agree, but this is one where we don't. I have installed Pertronix systems in many cars, and the only failure I ever had was when I accidentally reversed the positive and negative wires on the coil. That fried the Pertronix. The rest are still running strong.

The one in Betty's car has close to 12 years on it, and it never hiccuped. My car has one running in it since I got the six running. It triggers the factory CD box, and it works great too.

On the other hand, I can't count the number of times I had to re-gap points on the side of the road because the breaker plate was worn and that let the points slip.
It cost me a first place in class at an AX years ago when the points closed up oin the middle of my run. Got a Pertronix and never looked back.

Betty used to be able to do it in heels and a dress when coming from work.

[Cap'n Krusty]

Something must be wrong with me, Clay. Over the years I've seen probably 15-20 fail, one on a car I just bought and was taking home. But then I've worked on probably 50-60 cars with 'em. I've never had a Compufire quit, but then I've only installed about a dozen of those. Had a couple of Crane-Allison's fail, too, but it was the box, not the pickup. To be fair, I've also seen a few Bosch units fail ............

The Cap'n

[shuie]

Make sure you did not flip the +\- leads on the petronix.

[Bartlett 914]

Something must be wrong with me, Clay. Over the years I've seen probably 15-20 fail, one on a car I just bought and was taking home. But then I've worked on probably 50-60 cars with 'em. I've never had a Compufire quit, but then I've only installed about a dozen of those. Had a couple of Crane-Allison's fail, too, but it was the box, not the pickup. To be fair, I've also seen a few Bosch units fail ............

The Cap'n

Perhaps earlier units were not as good or had problems. I heard that if leaving the ignition on without the car running, they can burn out. That makes sense to me. Thee must be a transistor that cannot handle 100 percent duty cycle. I am using Hot Spark. Never had a problem but I also make sure I never leave the key on without the car running. I Wouldn't leave the key on with points either for that matter.

[DRPHIL914]

Something must be wrong with me, Clay. Over the years I've seen probably 15-20 fail, one on a car I just bought and was taking home. But then I've worked on probably 50-60 cars with 'em. I've never had a Compufire quit, but then I've only installed about a dozen of those. Had a couple of Crane-Allison's fail, too, but it was the box, not the pickup. To be fair, I've also seen a few Bosch units fail ............

The Cap'n

Perhaps earlier units were not as good or had problems. I heard that if leaving the ignition on without the car running, they can burn out. That makes sense to me. Thee must be a transistor that cannot handle 100 percent duty cycle. I am using Hot Spark. Never had a problem but I also make sure I never leave the key on without the car running. I Wouldn't leave the key on with points either for that matter.

i dont have the years of experience you guys do , but i have a hot spark unit, same one for past 4 years, even left ignition on over night once, no issue. but in the trunk i have a back up just in case - a second very nice distributor with brand new injector trigger plate , cap rotor etc with points/condenser etc just in case-

- is there any difference between the hot spark and petronix?

[Java2570]

I think the Hot Spark is a Chinese knock off but it's a similar product. I've not used one to see if there's a difference but some folks here run them with good success.

To OP: make doubly sure that your wire connectors that go to the coil are crimped well and that you have a good ground. Also, you will need to retime after installing
the Pertronix.....it will change your timing. I've had the exact same issue and had
to advance my dizzy a bit to get it to start. It is possible to fry the module by hooking it up backwards and also by leaving your ignition on for extended periods.
I've been using Pertronix for about 7 years with no issues.

[drbill]

I think the Hot Spark is a Chinese knock off but it's a similar product. I've not used one to see if there's a difference but some folks here run them with good success.

To OP: make doubly sure that your wire connectors that go to the coil are crimped well and that you have a good ground. Also, you will need to retime after installing
the Pertronix.....it will change your timing. I've had the exact same issue and had
to advance my dizzy a bit to get it to start. It is possible to fry the module by hooking it up backwards and also by leaving your ignition on for extended periods.
I've been using Pertronix for about 7 years with no issues.

Thanks, guys. All connections are okay. I think it's a timing issue. I've been going through the Haynes manual and the PP tech article. Jim T. has an addendum to that article about moving the dizzy so that the rotor arm is pointing approx 12deg off the longitudinal axis of the engine. Mine points right at the inspection hole: way off.

So, a few questions.
1. Need to be at TDC #1 to do this. Compression stroke. I'm a little confused about this. Here's what I did to find TDC on compression: removed #1 spark plug and inserted some 1/4 inch fuel line. Rotated engine by turning the rear wheel. Had ear up to end of the fuel line and as the rotor approached the notch in dizzy, could feel puff of air hit my ear, so that means compression, right? Rotating engine one complete turn puts #1 at TDC, but exhaust stroke and #3 at TDC compression stroke, right?
So, if at TDC #1 based on the marks on the fan, the flywheel and rotor being pointed at the notch on dizzy, it's always on compression, correct?

2. Once I'm sure that TDC #1 is achieved, it need to pull the dizzy up enough to rotate it so the rotor points at this 12 deg angle. Where the heck is the screw that holds the clamping plate to the block?

3. If I lift the dizzy to rotate it, do I need new o-rings?

Bill (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[Mblizzard]

I think the Hot Spark is a Chinese knock off but it's a similar product. I've not used one to see if there's a difference but some folks here run them with good success.

To OP: make doubly sure that your wire connectors that go to the coil are crimped well and that you have a good ground. Also, you will need to retime after installing
the Pertronix.....it will change your timing. I've had the exact same issue and had
to advance my dizzy a bit to get it to start. It is possible to fry the module by hooking it up backwards and also by leaving your ignition on for extended periods.
I've been using Pertronix for about 7 years with no issues.

Thanks, guys. All connections are okay. I think it's a timing issue. I've been going through the Haynes manual and the PP tech article. Jim T. has an addendum to that article about moving the dizzy so that the rotor arm is pointing approx 12deg off the longitudinal axis of the engine. Mine points right at the inspection hole: way off.

So, a few questions.
1. Need to be at TDC #1 to do this. Compression stroke. I'm a little confused about this. Here's what I did to find TDC on compression: removed #1 spark plug and inserted some 1/4 inch fuel line. Rotated engine by turning the rear wheel. Had ear up to end of the fuel line and as the rotor approached the notch in dizzy, could feel puff of air hit my ear, so that means compression, right? Rotating engine one complete turn puts #1 at TDC, but exhaust stroke and #3 at TDC compression stroke, right?
So, if at TDC #1 based on the marks on the fan, the flywheel and rotor being pointed at the notch on dizzy, it's always on compression, correct?

2. Once I'm sure that TDC #1 is achieved, it need to pull the dizzy up enough to rotate it so the rotor points at this 12 deg angle. Where the heck is the screw that holds the clamping plate to the block?

3. If I lift the dizzy to rotate it, do I need new o-rings?

Bill (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

This can be tough! As a suggestion, if you have not done so, pull all 4 plugs it makes engine rotation so much easier.

First, before you change anything, are you sure that you are viewing the correct mark on the impeller? TDC should display a "0" in the v notch like this



Remember the impeller makes two revolutions for one turn of the dizzy. If you are at TDC on #1 your rotor should be pointed at #1 as shown below. Which should be in the general area if the inspection hole. If I remember correctly, the 12 degrees refers to the orientation of the distributor drive gear not the rotor.



If the rotor is in the general area of #1 then you likely don't need to rotate the dizzy. If the rotor is pointing at #3 the you are off.

Because the car ran before the change, I would think that it would be best get it running again before changing anything else like pulling the dizzy.

Once you are sure that you are at TDC, regardless of where the rotor is pointing verify that the wires are attached to the cap in the correct firing order 1, 4, 3, 2. If they are not in that order then place them correctly.

Now at this point the car should be in a position to start. If the rotor was not pointing at #1 and you moved wires then you may have to move the dizzy to get it to start. Sometimes it is best to get someone to start the car while someone else rotates the dizzy.

If it runs and you moved the wires then at that point you can decide if you want to pull the dizzy to get the rotor to point at #1 as shown in the photo.

On the 2.0, the vacuum advance can on the dizzy blocks the hold down nut. If you have to pull the dizzy, you will need to loosen the 10 mm hex bolt and rotate the dizzy so the the vacuum can is facing toward the rear of the engine to get at the 13 mm hold down nut. If you remove the dizzy the o rings will be fine.