Wrecked 1970 914-6 on the Samba $32K, 9140431862 Options

[SirAndy]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) I bet Andy won't be offering his 6 tub for $5k ever again.

Nope, y'all had your chance ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Gustl]

could anybody read the paint code ...? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

The 914-6 has the 911 paint codes, so Irish green is 15

so far so good ... but I doubt that this badge shows a "5" as second digit ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[poorsche914]

so far so good ... but I doubt that this badge shows a "5" as second digit ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Was difficult to bring much out but it looks like the lower curve of a 5 and very slight curve above that. Appears that area is dented in slightly so has shadowing on it.



(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[SirAndy]

could anybody read the paint code ...? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

The 914-6 has the 911 paint codes, so Irish green is 15

so far so good ... but I doubt that this badge shows a "5" as second digit ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Looks like 43, Willow Green, which wasn't a '70 color ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[toolguy]

Got to be one of these. . . funny the inside of the body is black, which was not a 914-6 1970 color but was a 71 optional color # 10. . this cars serial number is for a 1970 ie--- 043 ----

optional colors all started with digit "8"

Standard Colors 1970 914-6 starting with digit "1"

Light Ivory 1110

Signal Orange 1410

Irish Green 1510

Adriatic Blue 1610

[skier2.0]

Car needs to be benched on a Celette or Blackhawk with fixtures. Why is everything undercoated trunk, undercarriage looks like a quick "resto". $32K LOL.

[sixnotfour]

It was an Irish green car no doubt, look at the smashed fender well picture where the under coat is peeled off...Irish Green...
Andy , 70's german 1's have the hood at top at a great angle down, much like the start of a 4.


http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=colors

[ruby914]

How much for just the VIN plate? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Would it be unorthodox, fraudulent or just wrong.
To get a clean “rust free” 1971 donor car, move all 914-6 specific parts and all VIN ID to the donor (including body stampings) and scrap the original 6 body?

[Chris914n6]

Probably priced the 75 at 10k given the others on Samba, making it 22k for the wreck.

[siverson]

Yes and illegal in CA.

-Steve

How much for just the VIN plate? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Would it be unorthodox, fraudulent or just wrong.
To get a clean “rust free” 1971 donor car, move all 914-6 specific parts and all VIN ID to the donor (including body stampings) and scrap the original 6 body?

[ruby914]

Yes and illegal in CA.

-Steve

How much for just the VIN plate? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Would it be unorthodox, fraudulent or just wrong.
To get a clean “rust free” 1971 donor car, move all 914-6 specific parts and all VIN ID to the donor (including body stampings) and scrap the original 6 body?

Nothing stolen. Everything original, but everything around “everything original”, replaced.
Just wondering where you draw the line? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[pete000]

Yes and illegal in CA.

-Steve

How much for just the VIN plate? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Would it be unorthodox, fraudulent or just wrong.
To get a clean “rust free” 1971 donor car, move all 914-6 specific parts and all VIN ID to the donor (including body stampings) and scrap the original 6 body?

Nothing stolen. Everything original, but everything around “everything original”, replaced.
Just wondering where you draw the line? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Send it back to the factory restoration shop and they would do a legal vin swap. I have heard they have done so with early 911s. They would probably bill you 90 grand for a Pebble Beach Concours quality restoration fully documented. They can restore anything... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

[Old Yella]

Isn't that a 75-76 front clip? and wasn't it stolen? has it been found again?

Start with this, and 2 fenders and a cowl section, and lots of time and patience.
oh ya and $$$... forget the silver car not even worth mentioning... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[SixerJ]

The fact that the only picture of a reasonably good shut line is the RH boot (sorry trunk) would be ringing alarm bells in my mind

If the shop was being honest they would have posted pictures of both sides of the car, top down with taga top (hanging over the back of the roll bar etc). At least then people would have a realistic view of just how bad the tub was, but that wouldn't service the 35k price tag.......thank goodness for the community and Toolguy being on the spot

In the UK the paint on its own would be 8-12k, plus repairs......as stated the maths just don't work

Ref vin numbers, equally illegal here to do a straight swap without the proper oversight. I know of at least one car (a 911) that was inspected by both Porsche and the DVLA (your DMV) to verify correct repair / swap. Even then it gets extra chassis stamps to record the change

This car will be repaired at some point, because of the increasing values. However it will also be on the 914 database.....if ever advertised in the future as a one careful lady owner (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving-girl.gif) we will know the truth

[carr914]

Isn't that a 75-76 front clip? and wasn't it stolen? has it been found again?

Start with this, and 2 fenders and a cowl section, and lots of time and patience.
oh ya and $$$... forget the silver car not even worth mentioning... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

That's what I thought too - the one Armando was looking for!

[GregAmy]

Would it be unorthodox, fraudulent or just wrong...to get a clean “rust free” 1971 donor car, move all 914-6 specific parts and all VIN ID to the donor (including body stampings) and scrap the original 6 body?

Yes and illegal in CA.

Probably technically illegal, but in reality it's not fraudulent if done above-board. Hell, it's not even unusual (see "complete restoration"; how many are actually the original parts? Does it matter?)

Think of it this way: you buy this wrecked car. At the same time, you buy a clean rust-free 1971 donor car (I'm assuming you're talking about a cheaper /4). You take all the replacement parts you need - ones that are the same - from the /4, one-by-one, and use them as spare parts for the /6. Your /6 needs a S**T-ton of parts, so you end up replacing every part on the /6 with one from the /4 (and buying any /6 parts as needed to complete the restoration). In fact, the parts where the VIN are stamped need replacing too, so you replace those as well, transferring the VIN part as needed into that replacement part.

Have you committed fraud?

ON the other hand, what is the difference between taking all the replacement parts from the /4 and putting them on the VIN of the wrecked /6, versus taking the VIN of the wrecked /6 and properly grafting it to the /4 chassis (and replacing any non-/6 parts)? Is there really a difference? When you're done, you end up in the same place...

If you think doing this is committing fraud, then consider what if instead of buying a /4 to use as parts, you bought all the replacement parts - same exact parts - from a reputable breaker. Who got all the parts from a /4. In the end you've done the same thing, so have you now also committed fraud? If so, then how can you legally repair this wrecked car? CAN you legally restore it in that case?

And note that we're not talking about mis-representing it when you're done. You will represent it as a wrecked 914/6 that was lovingly restored in a detailed manner, using parts from a used car. The buyer, a Porsche aficionado that knows these cars better than anyone else in the world, can properly determine that all parts on this restored car are the correct ones; there is nothing incorrect for the model.

These are questions that are hotly debated in many circles where serial-numbered vehicles are becoming valuable, to the point where such activities are becoming economical. There are many cases where expeditions are going out to jungles and at the bottom of oceans find wrecked WW2 airplanes, solely for the purpose of recovering the serial data plate. Hell, I know of a guy that spend a lot of rigging time recovering an old 1950-s race car from the side of a mountain just for the data plate. That's literally all he brought up.

In the end, it comes down to the philosophical question of "what constitutes a car?" And in the end, legally, a car is the data plate(s) and the title. If you legally have those, then you can legally build something to drive around the data plate(s)...

Hey, I've replaced the head twice and the handle three times, but it's still the same ole axe!

Greg

[0396]

Would it be unorthodox, fraudulent or just wrong...to get a clean “rust free” 1971 donor car, move all 914-6 specific parts and all VIN ID to the donor (including body stampings) and scrap the original 6 body?

Yes and illegal in CA.

Probably technically illegal, but in reality it's not fraudulent if done above-board. Hell, it's not even unusual (see "complete restoration"; how many are actually the original parts? Does it matter?)

Think of it this way: you buy this wrecked car. At the same time, you buy a clean rust-free 1971 donor car (I'm assuming you're talking about a cheaper /4). You take all the replacement parts you need - ones that are the same - from the /4, one-by-one, and use them as spare parts for the /6. Your /6 needs a S**T-ton of parts, so you end up replacing every part on the /6 with one from the /4 (and buying any /6 parts as needed to complete the restoration). In fact, the parts where the VIN are stamped need replacing too, so you replace those as well, transferring the VIN part as needed into that replacement part.

Have you committed fraud?

ON the other hand, what is the difference between taking all the replacement parts from the /4 and putting them on the VIN of the wrecked /6, versus taking the VIN of the wrecked /6 and properly grafting it to the /4 chassis (and replacing any non-/6 parts)? Is there really a difference? When you're done, you end up in the same place...

If you think doing this is committing fraud, then consider what if instead of buying a /4 to use as parts, you bought all the replacement parts - same exact parts - from a reputable breaker. Who got all the parts from a /4. In the end you've done the same thing, so have you now also committed fraud? If so, then how can you legally repair this wrecked car? CAN you legally restore it in that case?

And note that we're not talking about mis-representing it when you're done. You will represent it as a wrecked 914/6 that was lovingly restored in a detailed manner, using parts from a used car. The buyer, a Porsche aficionado that knows these cars better than anyone else in the world, can properly determine that all parts on this restored car are the correct ones; there is nothing incorrect for the model.

These are questions that are hotly debated in many circles where serial-numbered vehicles are becoming valuable, to the point where such activities are becoming economical. There are many cases where expeditions are going out to jungles and at the bottom of oceans find wrecked WW2 airplanes, solely for the purpose of recovering the serial data plate. Hell, I know of a guy that spend a lot of rigging time recovering an old 1950-s race car from the side of a mountain just for the data plate. That's literally all he brought up.

In the end, it comes down to the philosophical question of "what constitutes a car?" And in the end, legally, a car is the data plate(s) and the title. If you legally have those, then you can legally build something to drive around the data plate(s)...

Hey, I've replaced the head twice and the handle three times, but it's still the same ole axe!

Greg

Well said.

[Mikey914]

we're not talking about mis-representing it when you're done.



This is the key

Yes, the market value will take a hit as the purists will probably be out (and they com and the higher price higher price for the factory original parts.
Thinks about it, you can buy a pure car for 75k with an upside that has no limit, or build this one at $45k that will not participate in the upside as much as the "clean" car.

Basically, the car took 2 hits, the accident and the value. It will however decrees the pool driving the pure cars up.

If you just want a six build one, if you are trying to save a car great!

But to speculate on the upside value right out of the gate, would take a lower price up front to make it worth while.

[toolguy]

one thing in the sellers favor, his local Craigslist ad shows multiple pictures of most of the car. .
All things considered, this vehicle SHOULD NOW HAVE A SALVAGE TITLE. That title would
follow the car and let future prospective buyers be aware of the cars past. .
Yeah I know titles can be washed, but because we [914World] have addressed
the cars condition with the vin associated in this post , future internet searches
of the vin will document the accident and reconstruction. .

PS.. there is no question about legality, transferring vin tags to another vehicle is illegal and also constituents fraud even if there was no original intent to decieve, as the act of changing number was deliberate.. All the rationalization in the world won't stand up in court. Fraud can be traceable back thru change of owners to the offending party.

[SirAndy]

there is no question about legality, transferring vin tags to another vehicle is illegal and also constituents fraud even if there was no original intent to decieve, as the act of changing number was deliberate.. All the rationalization in the world won't stand up in court. Fraud can be traceable back thru change of owners to the offending party.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)