License plate and dash lights on with key on, but lheadlight switch in the off position Options

[HalfMoon]

Working on an assumption that each component wire from the load side of the back of fuse position 8 can be tested by probing each wire individually with a ohm meter and then connecting the ohm meter ground wire to a ground source would provide useable data, this is what I found.
Of those four wires all but one showed zero. The one (pictured) that had a value of 1 ohm appears to be red with a white stripe (I'm extrememly color blind, so this is a guess). Sadly the one right next to it also appears red with a white stripe....
On the schematic they appear to connect to component 63 Fresh air fan and component 30 Fan switch.
The other two wires go to 56 and 59 wiper motor and cigarette lighter respectively (and remember they are zero ohm).
My car is a v-8 converted, so I have neither fan or fan switch as both had been removed many years ago before I obtained the car. The current problems had not existed during my ownership rather they have just now occured (with the exception of the high side wiper not working despite ability to work when hotwired which has always been a thorn in my side).
I'm guessing that the wire with an indication of resistence is mebbe somewhere touching a ground source? Neither is actually hooked up to a component....so a broken wire or somehow grounding?
Or....that the other three wires showing zero are not supposed to show zero and I need to trace each one of those wires
All of the above are supisitions from a complete knob however and so could easily be wrong way Wilson.
See the photo and say something :-)

[Tom]

David,
First of all, you need to separate all of the wires from each other. Then take ohm readings between each wire to ground. The one or ones with the "0" readings will be the bad ones.
If someone previously cut and modified the wiring, it will be difficult for me to lead you thru what might be the problem as the wiring is no longer what the wiring diagrams show. However, I can lead you thru to find out why fuse #8 is showing "0" ohms. This will be done by making sure all of the wires from the load side of fuse #8 are separated and reading each to ground, then following that wire to where it is grounding and repair it. Don't despair because you don't understand electricity as well as others, I will walk you thru to the finish.
From your observations, I would suggest that the wiper motor or circuit is to blame.
A short explanation of DC circuits: The more resistance = less current and the fuse will not blow if within specs. The less resistance = more current and the fuse will probably blow. So if you have a reading of 2-3 ohms with a circuit that is protected by an 8 amp fuse, the fuse will not blow. Less than 1.5 ohms and the current will exceed 8 amps and the fuse will blow.
Hope this helps, if not, PM me and I will try to explain it better.
Tom

[HalfMoon]

David,
First of all, you need to separate all of the wires from each other. Then take ohm readings between each wire to ground. The one or ones with the "0" readings will be the bad ones.
If someone previously cut and modified the wiring, it will be difficult for me to lead you thru what might be the problem as the wiring is no longer what the wiring diagrams show. However, I can lead you thru to find out why fuse #8 is showing "0" ohms. This will be done by making sure all of the wires from the load side of fuse #8 are separated and reading each to ground, then following that wire to where it is grounding and repair it. Don't despair because you don't understand electricity as well as others, I will walk you thru to the finish.
From your observations, I would suggest that the wiper motor or circuit is to blame.
A short explanation of DC circuits: The more resistance = less current and the fuse will not blow if within specs. The less resistance = more current and the fuse will probably blow. So if you have a reading of 2-3 ohms with a circuit that is protected by an 8 amp fuse, the fuse will not blow. Less than 1.5 ohms and the current will exceed 8 amps and the fuse will blow.
Hope this helps, if not, PM me and I will try to explain it better.
Tom

Extremely helpful Tom and informative. I am learning!
I suspect I'll find something wrong with one of the red/black wires leading to 56 wiper. The wiper motor itself can be powered both high and low when hotwired (addedum-months ago when addressing another issue). We shall see tomorrow when I get further testing done.
I'm very grateful for your help and judging by how many looked at this thread others are gaining valuable information as well
D

[HalfMoon]

Did more testing today per Tom's recommendations.
Here's the results

Rd/wht Fan switch=1. ohm (not hooked up to a fan)
Rd/wht Fan=1. ohm (no fan installed)
Rd/blk lighter=1. ohm (with lighter in or out)
Rd/blk wiper= 0. ohm

Additional-
continuity test wire rd/blk from fuse block 8 to component 56 wiper= good
Hot wire component 56 wiper, pin 53a=fail
Conclusion=wiper motor bad or not grounded?

What say you Tom?

[Tom]

Sounds like a bad wiper motor to me. A good one should read from power input to ground of at least 1.7 ohms or greater, like 2.0 ohms or more. 1.7 ohms with 12 volts = just about 7 amps. where 2.0 ohms drops the amperage to 6.0. Too much less than that and your 8 amp fuse will blow. When it is "0" ohms, well the amps go thru the roof! Blown fuse, burned wires, etc.
If you disconnect the bad wire from fuse #8 and power up the circuit, does the 8 amp fuse blow? It shouldn't!
Tom

[HalfMoon]

Sounds like a bad wiper motor to me. A good one should read from power input to ground of at least 1.7 ohms or greater, like 2.0 ohms or more. 1.7 ohms with 12 volts = just about 7 amps. where 2.0 ohms drops the amperage to 6.0. Too much less than that and your 8 amp fuse will blow. When it is "0" ohms, well the amps go thru the roof! Blown fuse, burned wires, etc.
If you disconnect the bad wire from fuse #8 and power up the circuit, does the 8 amp fuse blow? It shouldn't!
Tom

Got out to the garage for a few minutes to do some testing.
My current wiper motor at pin 53a reads zero ohm, so I reckon the wiper motor is in fact bad.

My spare wiper motor reads the following
53a=1.900 ohm (power, right?)
53b=.500 ohm
31b=1.100 ohm
53=.340 ohm
Yet (with the spare motor properly grounded) and 53a hotwired-no function :-(

I've yet to soldier back together the other wires (sans the wiper motor wire) to the spade and reconnect to fuse block slot eight and power up with a fuse to see if the fuse holds. I'm sure it will.
Too hot outside for contunued testing, lol.
More testing later when it's cooled off a lil.

[HalfMoon]

Interesting afternoon out in the garage with Little Bastard.

Tom, you were right! I soldiered all the wires back together (except the rd/wht wire to the wiper), put a fuse in, powered the circuit up, and yes indeed it held! So, spade 53a having a zero ohm reading was blowing the fuse. I then soldiered the red/wht wire for the wiper back onto the spade for fuse slot 8, attached it to fuse block 8, detached the lead at the wiper for 53a, and predictably the fuse held.
But here’s where it starts getting weird…
With 53a unhooked, now my wipers (low speed) are working but only when the stalk switch on the steering wheel is in the off position. The other three positions don’t work (with the exception of shutting off the wipers. I might add the auto park function isn’t working either).

Originally a few weeks ago when my wiper system went south I assumed it also had something to do with the dash lights and license plate lights being on when the key was in the on position with the light switch in the off position, but I now feel the issues are separate.
The lights issue may be related to some mods I did quite some time ago to address the PO having put in an aftermarket tach. See this thread http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...218076&st=0 most notably posts 21 and 22. Could very well be I missed something and that’s what is responsible for the dash lights and license plate lights coming on inappropriately. The far greater issue has become the wipers, so the lights issue battle for another day.

The wiper issue I think is quite separate. So, as I was saying, a few weeks ago when I starting addressing these problems witch I thought might be related, one of the things I did was replace the stalk wiper switch with a 924 switch (as I also wanted to power an electric wash pump I’ve installed) and it’s possible the current switching issue has something to do with that
(see this thread http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/9...tric_washer.htm and this thread http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...117014&st=0 most notably post 22 and 24).
I’m not at all convinced using a 924 switch is simply plug and play as it appears as if the wires may be routed differently at the switch than 914’s according to my switching symptoms. Pretty sure the wires at the wiper are correct but I may wrong. PO might have done some stuff and I’m color blind so I’ll take a picture and enclose it below.
Compounding the issue, last year I put a used wiper motor in addressing never having had a high side function and may have very well put in an earlier motor which I understand can quirk up things. See this thread http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...c=72503&hl=
That said, when I did swap out last year I had a low side wiper for quite some time (with a stock switch) but lost all functionality just recently the new 924 switch obviously not remedying the problem.

To be sure spade 53a at the installed wiper is causing fault and blowing the fuses. I didn’t test any of the other terminals hotwired on either the currently installed wiper or the spare, so I don’t even know witch spades powers the high side or the low side of those motors (which would be interesting to make further tests on).
53a showing zero ohm is definitely not gonna work so the motor has to come out for sure.
Do you happen to know which spades control which function Tom? That would be valuable for testing the spare and additional testing of the current installed motor. I may ,upon removal of the current motor, take a crack at opening it and seeing if it can be repaired (surely true if my spare and the previously noted test results show the spare as bad)

About as clear as mud, huh?
Having fun now aren’t we?
D

[Tom]

David,
Glad to see you now know what the problem with fuse #8 is. Reading thru the last thread makes me come to a possible conclusion that your original wiper switch may not be bad after all. Your wiper motor could have been the culprit all along. I don't know if a 924 switch will work properly or not. Maybe someone will let you know.
Is there someone local that you could have test their wiper motor for readings? I don't like the ones you posted for the spare. I will look at mine tomorrow to see if I can get some readings, however mine is a 76.
I will take a look at your other threads and see if something jumps out at me.
By the way, I am red/green color blind, so we are the blind leading the blind. LOL!! I have my wife tell me what color the wires are. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Later,
Tom

[HalfMoon]

David,
Glad to see you now know what the problem with fuse #8 is. Reading thru the last thread makes me come to a possible conclusion that your original wiper switch may not be bad after all. Your wiper motor could have been the culprit all along. I don't know if a 924 switch will work properly or not. Maybe someone will let you know.
Is there someone local that you could have test their wiper motor for readings? I don't like the ones you posted for the spare. I will look at mine tomorrow to see if I can get some readings, however mine is a 76.
I will take a look at your other threads and see if something jumps out at me.
By the way, I am red/green color blind, so we are the blind leading the blind. LOL!! I have my wife tell me what color the wires are. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Later,
Tom

I hotwire tested my spare and both high and low work! A lil worried about 53a with 1.9 ohm....
Might as well hook it to the cars harness and see what happens, right?

[Tom]

Remember that 53a goes to both your wiper motor and the fresh air blower. 1.9 ohms seems an OK reading to me. If the spare that tested OK on the bench does not work in the car, I would investigate that wiper switch.
Tom

[Tom]

David,
I was reading back thru some of your thread to see if I missed something and noticed these readings:
Rd/wht Fan switch=1. ohm (not hooked up to a fan)
Rd/wht Fan=1. ohm (no fan installed)
Rd/blk lighter=1. ohm (with lighter in or out)
While 1 ohm is not a short to ground, it allows a lot of current (12 amps) so I suspect those readings may be in error, or, you have a multi-meter that reads an open circuit as 1. Beside that, if the other end isn't connected to anything, it should read infinity. Try this, turn on the meter and with no leads attached turn it to the ohms position. What does the meter read?
Tom

[HalfMoon]

David,
I was reading back thru some of your thread to see if I missed something and noticed these readings:
Rd/wht Fan switch=1. ohm (not hooked up to a fan)
Rd/wht Fan=1. ohm (no fan installed)
Rd/blk lighter=1. ohm (with lighter in or out)
While 1 ohm is not a short to ground, it allows a lot of current (12 amps) so I suspect those readings may be in error, or, you have a multi-meter that reads an open circuit as 1. Beside that, if the other end isn't connected to anything, it should read infinity. Try this, turn on the meter and with no leads attached turn it to the ohms position. What does the meter read?
Tom

Here's a picture Tom :-)

[HalfMoon]

Rats.
I hooked up my spare to the cars harness (and I can hotwire the spare and get high and low) but when it's hooked to the cars harness, no love. Addedum-no doubt because whenever 53a is attached the fuse blows (see post 55)
Grrrr

[Tom]

David,
Well, that clears up the readings! Those that read this are open. Which is what I would expect.
By your hooking up your spare wiper motor to the car's harness, and not working, tells me that the 924 wiper switch may not work on your year of car. Try putting your original switch back in.
Tom

[HalfMoon]

David,
Well, that clears up the readings! Those that read this are open. Which is what I would expect.
By your hooking up your spare wiper motor to the car's harness, and not working, tells me that the 924 wiper switch may not work on your year of car. Try putting your original switch back in.
Tom

Tom,
Yes, I'm beginning to think that as well.
Further testing revealed this:
Testing the spare(known to be good on ohm test)-hooking it up to the cars harness and NOT attaching pin 53a yields functionality but with the stalk position incorrect.
Attaching 53a immediately blows the fuse.
I might add, testing of the current installed motor where 53a is reading zero ohm and 53a NOT attached yields both high and low functionality with the stalk position incorrect.
The stalk switch I have is a brand new 924 unit (I had hoped to power a elec washer pump with it) and I had heard the switch was "plug and play" but I'm starting to doubt that (at least in a 1973 model, which I understand had some wiring differences).
The next step is to try your suggestion and go back to the original switch and see if I can get functionality on the spare in the correct stak positions. I thin I'll also do a very close part comparisson when I have both the switches out as well.
We're gaining on the problem! I suspect we'll find a multi pronged problem, the original installed motor is bad AND the 924 switch in a 1973 isn't plug and play.
We shall see....

[Tom]

David,
Does your blower motor work? The blower motor is also powered by 53a.
Tom

[HalfMoon]

David,
Does your blower motor work? The blower motor is also powered by 53a.
Tom

V-8 converted. No blower or heat system.

[Tom]

David,
Are those wires properly terminated to keep them from shorting together or to ground?
Tom

[HalfMoon]

David,
Are those wires properly terminated to keep them from shorting together or to ground?
Tom

Yep they are :-)
I'll be switching back to my stock wiper switch in the morning and I'kk hook my spare and known to be good wiper motor into the harness for a test.
Hopefully we'll get love and that will isolate the remander of the problem to the the 924 switch mod.
I'm also looking forward to a very carefull examination of both the switches.

[HalfMoon]

Actually.....
Friend Valy has suggested disconnecting the switch, fusing 8, and leaving the harness hooked up to the currently installed motor and see if the fuse holds that way. That could further promote the idea that somehoe the problem is at the switch. He also assures me, the 924 switch should be plug and play, however...there are several things that may have gone wrong with the install that could be causing a problem:
1.Do you have the small copper tab that grounds the switch
through one of the mounting screws in place? It's very
easy to lose it and people many times do.
2. Make sure that when the switch is installed in the
steering column, the side of the switch doesn't touch
the column on the left side where all the contacts are. This
happened to me once it indeed it blows the fuse right away.