License plate and dash lights on with key on, but lheadlight switch in the off position Options

[HalfMoon]

Got out in the shop for a bit today and performed a few more tests.
This is what I found:
With the cars harness hooked up to my spare wiper motor (known to be good), and the new 924 switch disconnected at the steering colum, the fuse holds!
Another test, same as before but this time with the column switch removed from the column but hooked up to the wiring harness, the fuse holds and we have functionality at the wiper.
I can only conclude the switch is somehow shorting/grounding when it's installed in the column.
I have a notion what it is....
See the picture of the 924 switch below? Notice the circled area. That's where the 924 switch powers an electric washer pump. Also notice when I pulled (carefully-I have alot of practice at this point) the switch, this lead was seperated. It appears as if this connector may be touching the bottom of the column housing. I need to look at other things too but that's the first suspicion.

[HalfMoon]

Hmpf.
Pretty confused today.
I did a side by side comparisson of the stock wiper switch and the 924 switch that I was under the impression was plug and play http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=93618&st=0 (see post 16)
But now I'm not so sure....
Using a continuity tester the wires on the stock switch compared to the 924 switch energize very different internal components, to such an extent that even if I were to change the wires in the loom on the 924 switch, it wouldn't be possible to mimick how the stock switch energizes it's internal componenets (at least not without fairly major modification).
Note that the part at CIP1 carries the correct part number for a 924 switch yet is listed for a vw. I was told that was ok, but I'm beginning to wonder...
I wonder what I've missed?
Suffic to say, I'll put the stock switch back in and ultimately that will solve the question (or at least hopefully).

[HalfMoon]

Swapped out the new 924 switch from my 1973 for not one but two seperate stock switches for two seperate tests. Both mounted inside the column. Both using my spare wiper motor known to be good (hotwire tested both high and low).
Fuse 8 holds, but oddly high side doesn't work (still), which essentially puts me smack back at square one pretty much.
For whatever reason, the new 924 switch is shorting out and using a stock switch the high side won't work. The two symptoms must be somehow related....
What the dickens is it?

Addedum-
Perhaps some member might be willing to take my stock switches and mount them in thier own car for testing?

[Tom]

Progress! That's good. Not take voltage measurements at the wiper motor for the high with the wire removed at the motor. That way you will know if the switch is sending power to the wiper motor on high. If there is power, the motor should work. If no power, you need to check out the wires between the switch and motor, and the contacts in the switch itself.
Tom

[HalfMoon]

Progress! That's good. Not take voltage measurements at the wiper motor for the high with the wire removed at the motor. That way you will know if the switch is sending power to the wiper motor on high. If there is power, the motor should work. If no power, you need to check out the wires between the switch and motor, and the contacts in the switch itself.
Tom

Here's what I did:
With the ignition switch on, using my known to be good spare motor.
I detected power st the column plug rd/blk (disconnected from the switch).
Previously detected continuity from red/blk to the wiper motor.
Addedum-Evidently I tested only sot 2 to 53a (power) and neglected to test for continuity from slot 4 to the 53a, which I later did test and found no continuity!)
Another addedum (See below post. I've erred at identification. I referred to pin pin 5 as pin 4. Grrrr. This is pissing me off!) Second wire from 53a DOES NOT have continuity at steering wheel column wiper switch connector, position 5!

And here's what I detected at each pin of the motor in each position and all wires attached in a POWER test (different from continuity, remember)
(my stock one is a four position switch) with the ignition switch in the on position.

Position 1 (presume this to be intermitent)
53=no power
53a=POWER
53b=no power
31b=no power

Position 2 (parked?)
53=no power
53a=POWER
53b=no power
31b=no power

Position 3 (low?)
53=POWER
53a=POWER
53b=POWER (although you could see clearly the test light was not as bright)
31b=POWER
and in this position the wipers will function at low speed

Position 4 (high?)
53=no power
53a=POWER (but let's not forget 53a has two wires on it, slot 2 and 5 (correected from earlier post where I misidentified pin 5 for pin 4) of the connector at the steering wheel)
53b=no power
31b=no power

[HalfMoon]

Found something interesting. A continuity problem (and let's be clear, testing for continuity is very different than testing for power).
The wire/s from 53a should have continuity at the steering wheel column connector slot 2 and 4 (see picture). Continuity exists in the wire from 53a to slot 2 but not at slot 4. (crap-see below. I goofed where slot 4 and 5 are located). No continuity 53a second wire to slot 5 of the connector)
I wonder if I've found the problem?

Here's the rest of the continuity test result (and remember, continuity and power detection are very different tests)
(slot 5) 53=yes
(Slot 2 and 4) 53a=slot 2 yes, slot 4 fail!
(Slot 1) 53b=yes
(Slot 3) 31b=yes
Tested with battery disconnected, all wires at wiper disconnected and wiper switch at the column disconnected

Addedum-Oh crap. I screwed the pooch. The numerication of the slots is wrong. 5 should be 4 and 4 should be 5.
So the revised results would be
(slot 4) 53=yes
(Slot 2 and 5) 53a=slot 2 yes, slot 5 fail!
(Slot 1) 53b=yes
(Slot 3) 31b=yes
Tested with battery disconnected, all wires at wiper disconnected and wiper switch at the column disconnected

[HalfMoon]

Well duh me.
On the learning curve.
Slot 5 of the steering column wiper switch (see previous post) wouldn't show continuity at the wiper motor pin 53a cause the secondary rd/blk wire coming from 53a doesn't go to the connector. It goes to the power side of fuse 8, then off to the horn and fan relay.
Pin 5 of the connector is un-used. They all came wired for the optional "intermitent" (see 91 of the schematic) feature. You can find that wire in the forward trunk and test continuity from it to the connector slot 5.
Essentially that means to if your having a fan problem or a horn problem that'd be a place to check for continuity and or power (but don't be decieved, fuse 8 can be powered up from a number of other sources. A continuity test on the actual wire is best), the secondary rd/blk wire from the wiper 53a down to the load side of fuse 8. But in terms of the wiper connector it's meaningless unless your testing for an intermitent wiper feature.
Sooooo, what does this mean for the happless me?
Through the process of elimination, not only was my stock switch bad (no continuity between pin 1 and 2 in high position), but apparently the switch from CIP1 was either bad or that part (remember, I got the VW one for the super beatle or 924 to power an electrical washer pump) isn't gonna work.
When I test the switch, the farthest innermost terminal on the left is supposed to have continuity between pin 1 and 2 when in the high position. It doesn't. It has continuity from pin 1 and 3. Either miswired or that mod doesn't work. CIP1 is shipping me a new one so we shall see....
And let us not forget, the currently installed wiper motor is also bad (compounding the diagnosis) as 53a is zero ohm (tested in isolation). Fortunately I have a spare pulling 1.9 ohm.
Can I get a freakin break on these damn wipers?
And to think, this all started with dashboard and license plate lights coming on inappropriately.....(a problem for another day)

[HalfMoon]

Sigh. Well it has been a long long road but my wipers are finally functioning again but not what you may expect.
After many weeks of trouble shooting with a fellow member who is also an electrical engineer (thanks Valy!) I had to give up on the 924 switch from CIP1.
It took quite awhile to figure out that the switch from them was mis wired (a manufacturing error). Two switches I might add. Both had pin 2 and 3 reversed. That said, I was able to get the wipers to function as long as the switch was not installed in the column. As soon as I installed the switch it would blow fuse 8 EVERY TIME and we couldn't figure out why to save our lives. At the end of the day, I rebuilt my old stock switch. It works fine now (but of course it has no trigger for the electric washer pump I had previously installed.) I'm gonna go with a momentary switch installed on the dash somewhere and call it a day. Belive me when I say the 924 switch mod isn't a "plug and play" job, at least not the "economy" switch from CIP1. Perhaps a genuine Porsche 924 switch would work but it's NLA so you'd have to get one aftermarket and my experience thusfar with aftermarket is they're for shit so don't bother.
Oddly enough, my tach light and license plate light are still coming on inappropriately but I could care less now, lol. Having wipers working is a big thing at this point and I'll bask in the simple pleasure of having them working again.
As an aside, rebuilding a stock wiper switch is far easier than you might think. I took a buncha pix while I did mine. There's a very common thing that happens to them that makes em not work and it's quite easy to fix. Tell me you want to see the re-build proccess as a thread and I'll post it.

[HalfMoon]

Oh, btw, if anyone would be interested in verifying the CIP1 switch inability to be used in this popular mod, I'd be happy to send you the POS for you to try in your car. Free of charge (even the shipping). All you have to do is agree to post your finding on this thread :-)
David

[dangrouche]

after reading your thread, I thought about offering you a few bucks for the CiP1 switch. I'm game. I will PM you my address.
thanks
Ben

[HalfMoon]

after reading your thread, I thought about offering you a few bucks for the CiP1 switch. I'm game. I will PM you my address.
thanks
Ben

Ben,
It's yours for free if your ok with posting your install results (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Pretty sure you'll be blowing fuses at 8 like I did...

[76-914]

Sigh. Well it has been a long long road but my wipers are finally functioning again but not what you may expect.
After many weeks of trouble shooting with a fellow member who is also an electrical engineer (thanks Valy!) I had to give up on the 924 switch from CIP1.
It took quite awhile to figure out that the switch from them was mis wired (a manufacturing error). Two switches I might add. Both had pin 2 and 3 reversed. That said, I was able to get the wipers to function as long as the switch was not installed in the column. As soon as I installed the switch it would blow fuse 8 EVERY TIME and we couldn't figure out why to save our lives. At the end of the day, I rebuilt my old stock switch. It works fine now (but of course it has no trigger for the electric washer pump I had previously installed.) I'm gonna go with a momentary switch installed on the dash somewhere and call it a day. Belive me when I say the 924 switch mod isn't a "plug and play" job, at least not the "economy" switch from CIP1. Perhaps a genuine Porsche 924 switch would work but it's NLA so you'd have to get one aftermarket and my experience thusfar with aftermarket is they're for shit so don't bother.
Oddly enough, my tach light and license plate light are still coming on inappropriately but I could care less now, lol. Having wipers working is a big thing at this point and I'll bask in the simple pleasure of having them working again.
As an aside, rebuilding a stock wiper switch is far easier than you might think. I took a buncha pix while I did mine. There's a very common thing that happens to them that makes em not work and it's quite easy to fix. Tell me you want to see the re-build proccess as a thread and I'll post it.

Post up. We have plenty of storage.

[rhodyguy]

what's the story with the grey exposed wire in the bundle of relay "c"?

[HalfMoon]

what's the story with the grey exposed wire in the bundle of relay "c"?

I searched the thread and I can't find what your referring to. Could you quote the exact post (presumably with picture)?
Ty
D

[rmital]

[quote name='HalfMoon' post='2054661' date='Jun 26 2014, 03:22 PM']
The mystery relay


looking for the location of this relay (the one hanging)....is it tucked up there somewhere?

[TheVintagePassion]

Hello at all, I'm Carmine Borraccino From Italy this is the first time for me on this wonderful forum. I saw the "Mystery relay" on my '73 1.7 914 during the substitution of the lights switch, its rubber socket is mounted on the lower frame of the dashboard, hope this can help you.

[rmital]

Hello at all, I'm Carmine Borraccino From Italy this is the first time for me on this wonderful forum. I saw the "Mystery relay" on my '73 1.7 914 during the substitution of the lights switch, its rubber socket is mounted on the lower frame of the dashboard, hope this can help you.

yep, found it once I broke out the mirror and look up underneath. thanks!!
and welcome
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)