Those f--kers at Firestone broke my car!!!!, can't you adjust camber/caster on a 914? Options

[nebreitling]

Damn, I am PISSED!!!

i know i'm new here so i don't want to give the impression that i'm normally an asshole, but the f--kers at firestone really put me over the top. here's the story:

i just had some work done at HPH: new ball joints, various bushings, etc. not cheap but it was a lot of work and the guys did a real quality job as far as i can tell. i also put on some new tires. so, it was time for an alignment. enter my local firestone.

i asked the guys there if they ever did porsches, they said "no prob" and it was a good deal ($70), so i left the car this morning. came back around 3.30 to check in, and it still hadn't been on the racks. i could tell it had been test-driven (scary thoughts flash through my mind) because it was re-parked. no big deal, i had some work with me that i could do. well, at about 6.45 they're finally done "aligning" it (some sort of inverted commas are necessary here) and the mechanic takes another test drive (he still hasn't found first gear yet, but whatever...). then he comes in and tells me i need new tie-rods. i don't believe him so he puts it on the rack again (still without the help of 1st gear) and torques the hell out of them with some vise grips. sure enough, one of them moves a little. call me dubious.

so i pay and ask for the spec sheet. first off, i see that 6:10 (literally) of the values are out of spec -- some are even worse than before!
now, i'm new to 914's and Porsche's in general, so forgive my ignorance if i pose of few questions:

-is it possible to adjust front camber on a stock 914?
-" " " " " " caster " " " " ?

the mechanic claimed that these were both "fixed".

-is it okay to jack a 914 from the transmission?

also, the steering wheel was not set straight -- the car goes to the right if you hold the wheel straight. very annoying.

so all of the foregoing would almost be forgivable in some strange sense -- i mean, you get what you pay for, right? however, i was not prepared to find my seat adjustment handle broken off and laying on the floorboard. some f--ker broke my seat handle right off!!! "hey buddy, pull on it harder -- maybe it'll work if you force it!" urghhhhhh

so i stormed back in and layed down the law. i'll be talking with the owner/manager tomorrow. let me know what you guys think a fair settlement would be. if they don't satisfy me, i'd be happy to tell you which location to avoid (unless you are smarter than myself and already avoid it).

i do apologize for my verbosity. thanks for the vent.

nathan

p.s. hey FIRESTONE -- you guys are #1!!!
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[Zeke]

I'll be the first to reply( if I can type fast enough). Simply put: The corner tire store is not the place to take your car. Get your money back and find a place that has a four wheel alignment machine that regularly does Porsches. And yes, you can jack the car from the trans as long as you do it as far forward as possible and are willing to take a chance. From right under the bell housing splits the load more or less equally between the 2 motor mounts and the 2 trans mounts. It's really the only way to put jack stands under the rear jacking points, I jack my car from the side as often as possible, but when I want to work on the bottom side of the engine/ trans, I raise the rear.

[EdwardBlume]

What a bummer. You got raped. Its not a good feeling to have your car abused right in front of you.

There's a number of good shops to take your 914 to in the Palo Alto area. I like guys at Custom Alignment in Mountain View. They know Porsches. B knows somebody too- I'm going to use him next time for a corner-balancing on my AX car.

Its not uncommon for you to need new tie rods. Upgrade to the Turbo Tie Rods if you want better performance. The steering wheel will not be straight after the tie rods are bent. They could have bent them more when they tried to adjust it.

Jacking up the car by the transmission can cause bad things to your stock transmission mounts.

As far as what to do with Firestone, get your money back and move on. If you think they cause damages, document it and get another shop to validate the damages.

Good luck. I learned with Porsches you've got to find the best people and keep going back.

[nebreitling]

thanks, guys

i knew in the back of my mind that firestone wasn't a good idea... still, isn't it possible to adjust front camber/caster?

[airsix]

thanks, guys

i knew in the back of my mind that firestone wasn't a good idea... still, isn't it possible to adjust front camber/caster?

Absolutely.
On the front you can adjust caster, camber, and toe.
On the rear you can adjust camber and toe (but not caster).

Your mechanic (I use the term loosely) is an idiot. If you want you can tell him a former mechanic said that. Run away. Run far away.

-Ben M.

[ChrisFoley]

As far as jacking up the car from the transmission goes, it was not designed to take those loads. Many people do it successfully, but I have watched closely and the mounting ears flex when the car is lifted that way. That piece is made of magnesium, which is a very stiff material. Seeing it flex convinced me that this is not a very good way to lift the rear of the car. After all, the weight on each ear will be about 600 pounds. If it cracks, welding it is possible, but must be done by a specialist. It won't be a cheap repair either, especially since the tranny will have to be disassembled. For my money, it's much better to do it the "hard" way.

[Brad Roberts]

Bullshit.

HPH would have never sent you out the door with bad tie rods. They should move when you crank on them (they are mounted in rubber at the rack..unless you have Turbo tie rods).

IF.. Custom alignment will fit you in.. get it aligned there.

I would get a quote from HPH for a new seat rail with handle and present it to the Firestone guy's.. Rich will get a premium for a stock rail with a stock handle and not that plastic replacement crap.

Was this the Firestone on San Antonio near ElCamino just inside Mountain View ??

B

[dbelleperc]

I asked the same question at Pelican and here is the link on how to do everything. Aligning a 914.

[garyh]

IF.. Custom alignment will fit you in.. get it aligned there.

Let's hope CA has changed in the last few years.

The first/last/only time I went there, they did a pretty poor job. When I complained, they pulled a NARP-ish attitude on me.

At the very least, take the expansion tank off of your fuel tank, and hopefully they won't use vice-grips to tighten your strut mounts.

G.

[nebreitling]

Well, I went back today and bitched to the manager. He was a little defensive, but agreed to refund my money for the "alignment" and to foot the bill for HPH to fix the seat.

I'll tell Bontempi to take his sweeet time with it.... <_<

lesson learned? take your car to real professionals -- even for more "routine" tasks such as alignment.

n

[seanery]

I'd ask Bontempi for his recomendations on alignment-especially if HPH is your "regular" shop.

[Aaron Cox]

this is a little OT, but it helps explain the whole suspension terminology: