911 Dilemma, WTF Options

[bulitt]

If he's jumping at the 150, he knows it's worth much more.
If you decide to sell you need to really "offer" it up.
Also, Sometimes owning an expensive car is a PITA.
If you restore it and its worth 250+ where are you going to drive it? Cars and coffee?
You will be afraid to leave it out of your sight. And your Insurance Premiums will be way up there.

Sometimes a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.

[Mark Henry]

My bet is he plans to flip it for a profit.

[gereed75]

I am no expert but I agree with several of the ideas suggested here - Shop the car, do it now, take the cash, this bubble will burst.

Part of the appeal to the high end collector is doing the restore. They'll do it and gladly pay the bucks for the pleasure. I think fewer just pay the big bucks for a restored car.

Shop the car, do it now, take the cash, this bubble will burst.

[Chris H.]

I was wondering when this would happen. You have a real gem there. Gotta figure some VERY important people walked around that car and personally made sure it went together well.

The question is...how attached are you to it? It's one of the first 232 of the longest running, most recognizable sports car made. It's gonna be worth plenty in the future. You don't have to do anything with it.

I agree with Mark H., the guy probably has a customer in mind to flip it to. It's worth more. Bulitt is right, if you're ready to sell, "offer" it and see what happens when a few people get wind of it. You're in the drivers seat on this one and you can only sell it once.

[rhodyguy]

sell the car for the right price mark. do you have the funds (cash only) to make the car right without going into debt? sell, sell, sell…pay of the mortgage, get as far from consumer debt as you possibly can. probably not a very popular opinion. it's just a car...

[KELTY360]

So let's say this little flirtation gets you moving on the car and you spend a few years and lots of $$ restoring the car. Now you're all done.....what are you going to do with it, buy an enclosed trailer and schlep it around to shows? You'll have organizers beating down your door to attend their show. Sell it? It will be harder to part with when it's done than it is now. I'm betting you're not going to spend much time driving that $250k jewel to Cars and Coffee; or canyon carving with the 914 guys.

You're at that junction in life you've been waiting for. You'll always be part of the chain of title on an historic vehicle and you'll have stories to tell regardless of whether you still own it. You get to choose who gets the car and, to a certain degree, what happens to it. You're in the driver's seat...enjoy the ride!

[JmuRiz]

I would entertain offers and sell to the highest bidder. That's a lot of money for an old 911 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

You'll be too scared to drive a 250-300k car once restored, let someone with deep pockets worry about that.

[0396]

As some have suggested, we all are not getting any younger. If it were me, I would sell and move on. As it is, you've got way too many " projects".

[peteyd]

Don't sell the car for $150k. 911 values are still rising and they are still undervalued. You have one person interested in it and you haven't even advertised it as for sale.

If you really want the money, then advertise it for stupid money, or wait another 5 years and you will no doubt get more than $150k.

911's are our biggest market right now. People are paying big bucks to restore these cars (the SWB) and then can still sell them for a profit.

Also, these cars are so unique in all there differences from the 66 and up MY. There are many sheet metal pieces that are different from the 66 MY like the front shock towers, front latch panel, and the outer rockers. These are the few that I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more that I have not seen either.

If these panels need to be replaced on this car, you need to make sure you are getting proper panels.

Good luck

[scotty b]

FWIW I agree this market is a huge bubble right now. That said, I also think given the current state the estimates of the car being 250-300,000 when done are low. In the 2 years I have been working on a customers 73 S, I have watched it go from 180-250,000. I have personally seen 4 73 S's sell in the last 2 years for 230-250,000. Yeah, they're the best of the longhoods, but nowhere near as historically significant as a 232. you've got one hell of a lottery ticket there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Chris Pincetich]

Wow, very interesting dilemma. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Does a high-dollar, high,-value restoration have to be out-of-pocket???
Seems like the established value of the car, as-is, should be enough to secure a bank loan of $100k that you could then use to make it a restored, numbers matching, $300k car.

Has anybody ever done this? Received a loan w the un-restored car as collateral, then restored the car, enjoyed it for a while while making loan payments, then sold it for profit???

Just curious (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

If it were me, I'd spend a few months "putting it together" with your drivetrain skills, then sell it as a running, driving example that would benefit from concourse level restoration. Wrench, enjoy, then make some $$$. Make every day count, you only live once (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[rhodyguy]

check with YOUR bank and see how well they respond to such a proposal. i seriously doubt it unless you'll be willing to put up a HOUSE or REAL PROPERTY with enough equity to cover a home equity loan or personal line of credit. sorry, but faulty thinking to me. car bubbles, like housing and ones of soap all burst eventually. mark has had interest in the car via the INTERNET.

[euro911]

I bought the car 37 years ago for ... get this, $2700. My friend Randy Montoya at Automeister (not motormeister), coached me on the purchase. Remember, the internet wasn't around then (at least not for the public at large) and there wasn't a lot of info available regarding the '232', however, Randy knew it was an early car and told me beforehand that I should restore it.

After I purchased it and drove it home, down the twisty Pasadena freeway to Redondo Beach, it spent a little time up on jack stands in my garage. I rebuilt the carbs, adjusted the valves, fluid change and a tune-up (about $50. in parts at the time), as a tune-up at a Porsche dealership was right about the cost of a VW motor rebuild - $300) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I drove it on and off for a couple years, but one day, a shifting fork let go and it wouldn't shift out of 2nd anymore. I pulled the drive train and Randy rebuilt the transaxle. Since the engine was running pretty strong, but leaked oil from the cooler and return tubes, Randy recommended that I dismantle the motor, reseal it and have the top end done while it was all out of the car. I dismantled to a short block, tagged the P&Cs, heads, rockers and camshafts and placed them in crates. This is still the status of the drive train.


A few rocky romances (I was a young, handsome, debonaire guitarist in a couple of bands at the time) and a couple of job changes caused the project to come to a halt. The car and crates moved to several storage locations over the years (all indoors I'm happy to say). Luckily, I also had a '67 VW bus (that I now regret selling for a mere $2500.), so moving my belongings wasn't as bad as it sounds, but I've always had the intention to complete the restoration.

I would love to drag the '64 out of my enclosed trailer and drive it onto the grass at Monterrey, who wouldn't? ... and I wake up in the mornings sometimes with that "when the fuch am I gonna find the time to get this all done, the right way?" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)


Time is the real issue, as some of you have mentioned. I really don't know where the last 30 years went, but here I am today, 60 and retired ... and I do have the means to fund the project without living on canned beans (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ... I'm involved in many other activities that cumulatively eat up a lot of my 'free' time.

I already have a network set up to perform the restoration tasks - Dave Kent helped me with the restoration metal panels before he succumbed to cancer, George's guys at EMW would do the machine work, Steve Houge would handle the metal repairs and Fast Eddie, the interior work. Haven't decided on a chrome shop or paint yet. Adrian Gang and Randy are also friends who I can turn to for mechanical advice and help when I run into trouble (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) ... as well as one of our own, Richard (Type 4 Unleashed).


Dianne and I have been discussing this over the past few days, and of course, she thinks I should sell it (wemen) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) ... and fund my '66 912 and '67 911 projects - cars that I can drive without worrying about idiot drivers every mile on the road. Of course, the value of those are increasing too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)


Don't worry guys, I won't 'give it away' if I do decide to let her go. I plan to broadcast my 'dilemma' to the 232 Registry email list for additional sage advice - who knows ...
Maybe Jerry Seinfeld wants to own a second one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) ... Alois Ruf already owns three of them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

I appreciate the suggestions and will seriously consider all the options that are put forth. This isn't going to be easy though ... she is like part of my family after almost 40 years (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[swooshdave]

In that case hand the car to someone you trust and have them finish the car. You can spend your time with the other projects. When the car is done you can take it to a show or two and then decide on if to sell it.

Did the 356 bubble and burst or are the still climbing? Some cars just won't come back down. This is probably one of those.

[Chris H.]

Dianne and I have been discussing this over the past few days, and of course, she thinks I should sell it (wemen) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) ... and fund my '66 912 and '67 911 projects - cars that I can drive without worrying about idiot drivers every mile on the road. Of course, the value of those are increasing too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)


Don't worry guys, I won't 'give it away' if I do decide to let her go. I plan to broadcast my 'dilemma' to the 232 Registry email list for additional sage advice - who knows ...
Maybe Jerry Seinfeld wants to own a second one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) ... Alois Ruf already owns three of them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

I appreciate the suggestions and will seriously consider all the options that are put forth. This isn't going to be easy though ... she is like part of my family after almost 40 years (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Restoring the other cars with the '64 money is not a bad idea...was gonna ask about that but noticed you removed some of the details from your signature so I wasn't sure how much you wanted to broadcast... I do remember chatting over PM about your '64 though and recalled how long you've had it and how much you like it. The cool thing is you really can't LOSE money restoring any of the 911/912s. When does that happen (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) ?

[scotty b]

In that case hand the car to someone you trust and have them finish the car. You can spend your time with the other projects. When the car is done you can take it to a show or two and then decide on if to sell it.

Did the 356 bubble and burst or are the still climbing? Some cars just won't come back down. This is probably one of those.

356 have bubbled and burst at least twice now. Recently they seem to have leveled out. It's all cyclical in the big collector car market and even in the small sub markets. things get hot until the average guy can't afford it. Then that thing gets hot so the average guy starts buying the next thing, so the first thing cools etc etc etc. Once all the things have gotten hot, we go back to the first thing that got hot since it has cooled the longest.

[mepstein]

Dianne and I have been discussing this over the past few days, and of course, she thinks I should sell it (wemen) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) ... and fund my '66 912 and '67 911 projects - cars that I can drive without worrying about idiot drivers every mile on the road. Of course, the value of those are increasing too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)


Don't worry guys, I won't 'give it away' if I do decide to let her go. I plan to broadcast my 'dilemma' to the 232 Registry email list for additional sage advice - who knows ...
Maybe Jerry Seinfeld wants to own a second one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) ... Alois Ruf already owns three of them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

I appreciate the suggestions and will seriously consider all the options that are put forth. This isn't going to be easy though ... she is like part of my family after almost 40 years (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Restoring the other cars with the '64 money is not a bad idea...was gonna ask about that but noticed you removed some of the details from your signature so I wasn't sure how much you wanted to broadcast... I do remember chatting over PM about your '64 though and recalled how long you've had it and how much you like it. The cool thing is you really can't LOSE money restoring any of the 911/912s. When does that happen (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) ?

Shop burns down, transport vehicle crash, theft, restoration mistakes, ect. Never doubt the impossible. It's always possible.

[computers4kids]

Sell...I could never enjoy driving a car worth that much--would always be worried. Enjoy life and take your wife out to dinner (not Taco Bell) and have fun with your other projects that you could take for a drive!

[euro911]

Yeah, Mark, I'll probably have to take her to Spain for tacos, Italy for Lasagna, Germany for strudel, Holland for cheese and somewhere in the Orient for sushi ... and the UK for under-cooked eggs (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I can imagine how you feel when parking your blue car. As it is, we even try to park the old Toyota trucks far out in the parking lot so we don't get door dings, but it almost always happens - some turd pulls up next to us and you can barely slide a bushiness card between us (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

Dianne could probably tell you some stories about my reactions when I see the damage they've inflicted (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)


Holy S#IT ... you should see some of the responses the 232 guys are sending me.
About a 50/50 split on selling/restoring there too, as well as 3 very interested parties so far (notable guys that I know) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)


"As you probably know, out of the 232, only 60 know in existence world-wide ..." - (which I knew) ... and out of the 60, only 30 are #s matching - (I didn't know)

"Some restored ones going for 600K (Euros)!" - (I didn't know)

"Running projects have been selling for $400K." - (I didn't know)




"Mark,

I can tell you that these cars have appreciated faster than just about any other in the last 10 years. Mine was a matching numbers 901 that when I bought it ran but needed totally gone through and had to have all new front and rear fenders pans and rockers. I cant tell you what I sold it for due to an agreement I have but I will tell you that I heard that it cost over 200,000 euros to restore it and it is or was being offered for 500,000 dollars. I also sold a 65 factory sunroof car matching numbers 15 years ago for $2500. Still kicking myself!"



"Mark,

I say, in simple terms; Keep it and fix it for the following reasons ;
#1, Your purchase cost in 1977 (37 years ago) is close to $ 0000.00 in 2014 dollars.
#2, You own it now. How much time, effort, drama and resources would it take to locate another and then fix it ?
#3, You have the resources and network to restore it, in place.
#4, You have the passion and love the cars."



"Mark,

Lol
YOU my friend know how to whip up a bunch of grown men into a frenzy!

Once the dust settles and you believe you have REAL offers I would love a chance to buy your car."



I'm waiting on Jerry Seinfeld's reply (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)


This is turning into an interesting little journey ...

Hey, anybody got Jay Leno's phone # handy ??? ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[rhodyguy]

you better put that car in secure storage. like a VAULT!!

have you thought about insurance? how exactly would your homeowners see it if there was a major catastrophe?