Suby axle and DOJ cv issue., 25 splines to the diff, 30 splines to the axle. What CV is this? Options

[ruby914]

I put a 02 WRX motor in my 914 and have a MY03 TY754VN2BA trans staged for transplant.
I needed inboard CV’s so I went down to the local pick-a-part and got CV’s off of a 99 Legacy.
One CV was green the other was black. More so the black had ball and cage, the green had the tri roller setup. Both CV’s had the 25 spline count so I felt all was good.
Next, I sent a set of 914 axles with the inner race from the black CV to a machine shop to have them re-splined to fit the inner CV race.
When I got them back they fit great. Problem is the green CV has a different spline count inside the CV. I didn't notice this before.
ID on the green is 9 SFJ 82 NTN A R 3 T 29 splines to the drive shaft "trunnion" (inner race).
ID on the black is DOJ 87 AC NTN 30 splines to the drive shaft.
So my axles were splined for the DOJ 87 AC
Was this a mistake? I have searched the net and can’t find what model cars these fit. Can’t tell if it was proper for the car it came from. I think not.
I would hope to have chosen something common.

Anyone have an idea what cars these come from?
I would like one more DOJ 87 AC to get the project moving.
Maybe I should I re-spline a 2nd set of axles to something more common?

I am a little confused here. I think it was after 04 that the CV had shafts to the trany and the inner race "trunnion" was 30 splines. Did any of you do axles for the 03 and what spline count did you use?

[ruby914]

Here are some of the links I have to work with:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/133783096/NTN-CVJ

http://www.driveline.com.au/sites/default/...%20CUSTOMER.pdf

http://www.anfdriveshafts.com/pdf/NEW%20CV...20CATALOGUE.pdf

[76-914]

Mike, these are what I used, IIRC. ID on the green is 9 SFJ 82 NTN A R 3 T 29 splines to the drive shaft "trunnion" (inner race).

[ruby914]

Mike, these are what I used, IIRC. ID on the green is 9 SFJ 82 NTN A R 3 T 29 splines to the drive shaft "trunnion" (inner race).

Thanks Kent,
I may have found what I need. Holding for a PM back at NASIOC.
I found some FSM's. Didn't see this DOJ on the 99 Legacy
but so much depends on the AT, MT, AWD, FWD, motor size ...
I did find this part on the 93-96 impreza 1.8 FWD 4AT and 2.0 AWD 5MT.
Wish there was an easy X-reference.
I think, I like the DOJ over the SFJ anyway. I think they are stronger.
We'll see.

I am thinking this shaft may also fit the 04 Suby Trans?

[76-914]

Whichever one you use will be stronger than the Type4 CV.

[ruby914]

Whichever one you use will be stronger than the Type4 CV.

I am sure that's true. I thought I had this handled.
I went to pick up a 87AC down in Torrance but it had 23 splines to the trany. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
At that point I didn't bother taking the boots off to check the axle shaft.
The CV didn't have any other ID than the DOJ 87 AC NTN. Nothing telling me it was 23 splines or what the splines were inside the boot.
The guy was some help. He said his axles came from a FWD1800 5MT impreza.
I am looking for an older 2.0 turbo. Problem is he didn't think they were made for the US, only Japan.
Strong is good but,hard to find, very old strong, may not be the best.
I don't know. Still looking...

[rnellums]

A problem you might be running into is remanufactured CVs. I bought one out of a yard like you and found that the external splines were correct(to transmission) but the internals(to axle) were all off. I ended up using the ones that didn't fit to make output shaft locks for the tranny.

[ruby914]

A problem you might be running into is remanufactured CVs. I bought one out of a yard like you and found that the external splines were correct(to transmission) but the internals(to axle) were all off. I ended up using the ones that didn't fit to make output shaft locks for the tranny.

I agree. I don't know if NTN was the OEM. Both were NTN but only one was green.
Not the DOJ I used.
Now, I have to see if my trany shaft lock fits my axle (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)
This is a link from a juy looking for the same thing. he never got any answers. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1355328
This photo is from the link. Looking for spline count #3
From this, I may also be able to use the turbo MT (STI) DOJ87.... with out the AC

[ruby914]

Whichever one you use will be stronger than the Type4 CV.

After all I have found on CVs, I am starting to question if this is correct.
All this work looking for the CV to fit a 30 spline shaft lead me to Subaru Hi output applications.. Legacy TT, STI, JDM. Even with this larger DOJ 87 AC on the inboard side, the balls are only about .660 where the Type4 CV has something like .675.
Outter race OD is about the same.
The guy I got my DOJ 87 AC from had 1 good one out of 3 from his STI.
So if his STI is AWD and we are feeding the same power (give or take) to two wheels, wouldn't we need something considerably stronger?
I am starting to think we just have not seen or heard of the Suby CVs breaking on the 914s yet.

After breaking an inboard CV on the 901 trany and beating the life out if the starter, I am also starting to question the "CV fuse" thinking. That may still be good if your racing but I would think on the street your tires should be a good breaking point?

[76-914]

Whichever one you use will be stronger than the Type4 CV.

After all I have found on CVs, I am starting to question if this is correct.
All this work looking for the CV to fit a 30 spline shaft lead me to Subaru Hi output applications.. Legacy TT, STI, JDM. Even with this larger DOJ 87 AC on the inboard side, the balls are only about .660 where the Type4 CV has something like .675.
Outter race OD is about the same.
The guy I got my DOJ 87 AC from had 1 good one out of 3 from his STI.
So if his STI is AWD and we are feeding the same power (give or take) to two wheels, wouldn't we need something considerably stronger?
I am starting to think we just have not seen or heard of the Suby CVs breaking on the 914s yet.

After breaking an inboard CV on the 901 trany and beating the life out if the starter, I am also starting to question the "CV fuse" thinking. That may still be good if your racing but I would think on the street your tires should be a good breaking point?

Well first off Mike, you'd be crazy if you didn't question me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) As far as power to 2 wheels. The 914 is much lighter, your only spinning one wheel not 4. Where are you with this? Did you ever get your axles re-splined?

[rnellums]

I just got back from RRC in Moab, and on the way there I had one of the subie CV's come apart. I'm still not really sure how it happened, and nothing that I could see broke, it just came out of the plunge joint. Just wanted to relay that.

-Ross

[Chris H.]

I had one of my outer (914) CVs do that almost immediately after starting my first drive of the car. It sounded like the CV broke but it just fell apart and the whole thing was loose in the boot. Went back together fine. Are you using the sway a way axles from Ian?

[DBCooper]

I've broken three CV's (too much fun), all outer, the stock 914, and no inner, which are VW bus. When mine broke there was complete carnage, scattered broken metal chunks. All were on clutch dumps, there was no question that something traumatic just happened, and every time I was extremely grateful it was a CV that broke and not the transmission.

If you've been able to put yours back together it doesn't sound like those CV's are breaking so much as just becoming disassembled for some reason. One of the things SwayAway cautions against is a too short axles that stress the CV on full axle droop when the car's up in the air on a hoist, which is the reason for their "full floating" splines. Possible?

[mgp4591]

I just got back from RRC in Moab, and on the way there I had one of the subie CV's come apart. I'm still not really sure how it happened, and nothing that I could see broke, it just came out of the plunge joint. Just wanted to relay that.

-Ross

So it held up for the ride home- do you think raising your ride height helped? Sure was working well for the blasts along the river- thanks again! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[ruby914]

Whichever one you use will be stronger than the Type4 CV.

After all I have found on CVs, I am starting to question if this is correct.
All this work looking for the CV to fit a 30 spline shaft lead me to Subaru Hi output applications.. Legacy TT, STI, JDM. Even with this larger DOJ 87 AC on the inboard side, the balls are only about .660 where the Type4 CV has something like .675.
Outter race OD is about the same.
The guy I got my DOJ 87 AC from had 1 good one out of 3 from his STI.
So if his STI is AWD and we are feeding the same power (give or take) to two wheels, wouldn't we need something considerably stronger?
I am starting to think we just have not seen or heard of the Suby CVs breaking on the 914s yet.

After breaking an inboard CV on the 901 trany and beating the life out if the starter, I am also starting to question the "CV fuse" thinking. That may still be good if your racing but I would think on the street your tires should be a good breaking point?

Well first off Mike, you'd be crazy if you didn't question me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) As far as power to 2 wheels. The 914 is much lighter, your only spinning one wheel not 4. Where are you with this? Did you ever get your axles re-splined?

Yea Kent, the lighter car is a big consideration as well as what rubber you are running. I do totally agree that it is better to break a CV than a trany but for as light as a 914 is it would be nice if the complete drive-train would hold up to the power plant with confidence.
That takes me to the trany. I think it was The Heaterguy that I saw on NASIOC picking brains on why he was breaking Subaru transmissions. It got me wondering if putting the AWD power into 2wd is making a new weak link? Just thinking out loud.

Yes... the axles (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) I finally found the DOJ 87 AC. With the 30 spline shaft.
They cam from an 03 STI. The guy was great to break them down and clean all the grease out. He had 1 good one out of 3. Seems he drove his car hard.
Do you remember the comment about my axles being something like 15" and it would be hard to cut them down to 18"?
That was in your build thread. Later I called you, I think you said you took off 30 ~ 32mm. I felt safe with that and I sent them to Dutchman.
I got them back in no time.
I bought axles from bddrcfjfvy because I wanted to drive the car with little down time. Just pull my trany and axles and swap the suby trany and new axles.
Well, I don't know what he sent me but they were not 914 axles. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)
That 15" thing should have been a clue.
Do you know any one doing a Bug Suby swap?
So.. I am riding the KTM to work. Car is all 914 now, on jack stands.
I sent my axles off yesterday.

[ruby914]

I've broken three CV's (too much fun), all outer, the stock 914, and no inner, which are VW bus. When mine broke there was complete carnage, scattered broken metal chunks. All were on clutch dumps, there was no question that something traumatic just happened, and every time I was extremely grateful it was a CV that broke and not the transmission.

If you've been able to put yours back together it doesn't sound like those CV's are breaking so much as just becoming disassembled for some reason. One of the things SwayAway cautions against is a too short axles that stress the CV on full axle droop when the car's up in the air on a hoist, which is the reason for their "full floating" splines. Possible?

I did end up with 2 good DOJ 87 AC CV's and one with a cracked cage. I will weld that cage and put the 3rd fuse in my trunk.
After taking some measurements i sent note to have 30mm taken off my axle shafts.
This is what I recalled from Kent and It looked about correct.
That took the axles down to 19"~19 1/8".
That 18" seemed a bit short. I didn't want it popping out. I only gave about 3/16 clearance, straight shot. Hope I will not be sending a 3rd set.
I was hoping the 18" came from an 05 female Suby trany with 5 lug set up and that mad the difference.


I just heard Scott Amenson broke a CV. I need to check on what type.

[DBCooper]

I am starting to think we just have not seen or heard of the Suby CVs breaking on the 914s yet.

I don't see that the Subaru drag racers break as many Subaru CV's as I seem to break 914 CV's. That seems a reasonable indication, but we're going to know the real answer to that question pretty soon. As more people are up and running with inner Subaru CV's and outer Porsche we'll have a direct comparison and see which go first. I'm betting on the 40 year old 914's but am curious too.

That takes me to the trany. I think it was The Heaterguy that I saw on NASIOC picking brains on why he was breaking Subaru transmissions. It got me wondering if putting the AWD power into 2wd is making a new weak link? Just thinking out loud.

I'd be cautious reading much into that since he's running about 550 wheel HP through race slicks. That's the equivalent of about two STi engines, a lot more than any of us will ever see. Now that I think about it I'm impressed that he didn't break the CV's first. Wonder what he's using.

I'm just about to send some axles off to be re-splined. Wish I could wait to know the answers to these questions for sure, but can't. But I'm really curious. I think I'll go the 19 inch length too, seems logical.

[76-914]

I'm having good luck with mine staying on but I don't think I have enough slack for one to come apart. It is a very close fit when installing them. FWIW, mine are not floating and have the CV clips in place. Mike, don't weld that cage. Call me. I've got some spare cages. I haven't destroyed any CV's yet but I'm not dumping the clutch, either. However, my engine cradle isn't out of testing, yet. It passed it's 10 hr visual inspection. The next inspection will be at 50 hr's and I'll magnaflux it then. After that I might put my foot into it. Or, I may not. I'm pretty content with that 6 cylinder sound as I add power and hear it scream up to it's shift point. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[ruby914]

I'm having good luck with mine staying on but I don't think I have enough slack for one to come apart. It is a very close fit when installing them. FWIW, mine are not floating and have the CV clips in place. Mike, don't weld that cage. Call me. I've got some spare cages. I haven't destroyed any CV's yet but I'm not dumping the clutch, either. However, my engine cradle isn't out of testing, yet. It passed it's 10 hr visual inspection. The next inspection will be at 50 hr's and I'll magnaflux it then. After that I might put my foot into it. Or, I may not. I'm pretty content with that 6 cylinder sound as I add power and hear it scream up to it's shift point. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Kent, you have the cage for the DOJ 87?
Welded, I am sure it would get me home.
Before I weld it I was going to see if I could find a new replacement cage.
I have found links to new cages and inner races but don't know if they are still in business or sell to the public?
With conversion inner races, maybe there is a different CV that we could use with a stock 914 or 911 axle?
I have many links over on my NARP build thread. It's like my secret vault, I should move some over here. Many are saved on my PC as PDF. Need to find the links.

Here is one http://wenku.baidu.com/view/0a70a5a20029bd...ml?from=related

This one is good for max torque: http://www.ntn.co.jp/english/products/catalog/pdf/5603E.pdf

I would like to compare the #s to 914, 911 and 944 CVs

Here ya go, cut and paste from the secret vault.

http://www.covsparts.com.au/userfiles/file...Catalogue_E.pdf

GKN
http://www.gknservice.com/fileadmin/user_u...ialVehicles.pdf

NTN
http://www.ntn.co.jp/english/products/catalog/pdf/5603E.pdf

http://www.diago.sk/diagowebsite/files/cvj...tomobile_en.pdf

http://www.scribd.com/doc/133783096/NTN-CVJ

Helpful Porsche bits:
http://www.blindchickenracing.com/How_to/C..._joints_101.htm

Somehow cut and paste gave lot of bad links. They should be good now.

[ruby914]

Parts links:

http://rockforddriveline.com/New_Parts_Pag...&_Races.pdf

http://www.rockfordcv.com/pdfstore/races.pdf

And you should take a look at Dave's mid motor Suby in his gl coupe photos (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif) :

http://wordpress.suberdave.com/?page_id=278