6 heat exchanger price point, R U in ? Options

[mepstein]

I wonder if our friends at Restoration Design would take on the clam shells? They do such a nice job on repro 914 sheet metal!!! I sent Pete a PM and the link to this thread (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)

could they ? Absolutely. The problem is no one in their right minds would put out the expense to make such a part without at least twice the demand required to cover costs of tooling. 10 sets probably 'taint gonna be enough. The startup costs required to machine the dies would probably make most of us faint. IIRC Pete stated the dies fr the front trunk pan had over 80 hours in machining. To be vaguely blunt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) , there's a very good reason why RD makes more products for 356 and 911's then they do for 914's (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)


Here's some reading for ya

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=145738

I agree it's worth asking. Even though it would be a small volume part, they could charge a higher than average cost per piece. I also like the idea about making everything out of carbon steel and ceramic coating. It would be nice to know just how many pieces need to be sold for RD to make the part.

[pete000]

Even if they sold enough units to replace every factory six car still alive they probably would not make enough money to pay off the tooling investment.

[peteyd]

There is a need, and seemingly a larger group willing to shell out the money for nice S.S heat exchangers, but at what price ? I may be willing to head up contacting some of the possible suppliers but not until I have a better idea of how many are SERIOUSLY interested and at what price point. Vote in the poll, and post if you are genuinely serious. Please don't vote or post just to say it would be neat, or that you would be in for 500.00 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif). I would like some sort of numbers on hand before contacting any suppliers.

Potential suppliers would be :

Hayward and Scott

http://www.haywardandscott.com/914-6-perfo...exchangers.html

Dansk : ( if they have the tooling and interest )

http://www.jpgroup.dk/uk/danskjopex-exhausts

Original SSI builder ( if he still has the tooling/plans and interest )

I have no contact info so if anyone does please forward it

Keep in mind that Dansk and Hayward would also have to be shipped from across the pond

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=241939

Scotty,

All of the SSI tooling and machines were bought by Dansk. They are still making these exhausts, but I dont ever recall there being any tooling for /6 heat exchangers. I had seen all the tooling and everything that was being sold with SSI when it was for sale. If there was tooling at some point for the /6 exchangers then we either didnt see it or it was gone.

As for making these ourselves, as others have said the tooling would be a great cost. Plus there not only is stamping of the outer clams, but the stainless tubes need to be bent on a CNC tube bender, which we dont have.

[earossi]

Unfortunately, I do not know much about metal working; so, it would be nice for someone on this forum who knows metal working to chime in.

Having said that, what would it take to fabricate, say from wood, some buck patterns for the clam shell pieces? We would have to decide "whose" header design to work from, but buy a set of headers and mock up the clam shells on that header. Using the mock ups, could not someone produce a wooden buck that could be used to hand form the clamshells? We are talking relatively thin sheet metal here about the same gauge as air conditioning duct work. I have cut that material before with tin snips; but, once cut out, the sheet metal would have to be form fitted to the pattern suggested above. I think that old time metal workers used to form car parts exactly this way. So, we are talking about (4) different patterns to produce the clam shell casings.

This would be the only way to produce a low volume item such as we are talking about. Hopefully, someone with metal working knowledge can chime in about this discussion.

[Eric_Shea]

Yup. Dansk bought out SSI. They have been rumored to be working on -6 HEs. The owner has a -6 (my understanding).

[peteyd]

Yup. Dansk bought out SSI. They have been rumored to be working on -6 HEs. The owner has a -6 (my understanding).

If they are rumored to be making some, maybe lets sit tight and see what happens. I will look into the rumor.

Pete

[bluhun]

My interest depends on the manufacturer. If you can get Dansk or the SSI guy to do them, then I'm in at top dollar.

I'm curious about the H&S but they've been out for some time and only 1 guy here has ever seen a set and he hasn't installed it? I'd like more info before I shell out the $$$ they're asking.

Wouldn't pay $50 for the BB's.

I bought a set of H&S heat exchangers in February for my 3.2 conversion car. It took 3 months for them to arrive and when they did they came without the O2 sensor bung welded onto the left-side exchanger, even though it was specifically listed on the build sheet.

I just got my car back after 3 months in the body shop, so I haven't had the opportunity to install the exchangers on the car. This will be done in the next month or so, and I eagerly wait to compare them with the B&B exchangers that I'm running now, and which don't supply much hot airflow at all.

[Cairo94507]

Bluhun- Did you contact H&S re the 02 sensor bung and if so what was their response?

I see you are in San Rafael, that is drivable for me. I would like to come see the heat exchangers if possible. I live in the San Ramon Valley of the East Bay Area.

[bluhun]

Bluhun- Did you contact H&S re the 02 sensor bung and if so what was their response?

I see you are in San Rafael, that is drivable for me. I would like to come see the heat exchangers if possible. I live in the San Ramon Valley of the East Bay Area.

I did contact Ian at H&S and his response was something like: "Sorry, hope that's not a problem." It cost about $300 for shipping!

The exchangers are at Hi-Tec Auto, 779 Andersen Drive, in San Rafael. I'm sure that we could set up a time to meet there to check them out.

[johnhora]

Reliable source tells me that OEM type 914-6 HEs are being manufactured in the EU right now and should be available sometime later this year. I don't know the exact type metal or price point. But if crappy used HEs are fetching $$$$.00 then new ones will be a bargain at those prices. Get your checkbook or paypal ready.

[DEC]

Reliable source tells me that OEM type 914-6 HEs are being manufactured in the EU right now and should be available sometime later this year. I don't know the exact type metal or price point. But if crappy used HEs are fetching $$$$.00 then new ones will be a bargain at those prices. Get your checkbook or paypal ready.

Who build them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

[scotty b]

Reliable source tells me that OEM type 914-6 HEs are being manufactured in the EU right now and should be available sometime later this year. I don't know the exact type metal or price point. But if crappy used HEs are fetching $$$$.00 then new ones will be a bargain at those prices. Get your checkbook or paypal ready.

Any idea if they will be stock o.d. only, or offered in various sizes ?

[Cairo94507]

What, are we the freakin' CIA now? Spill the details or I know a water boarder or two.....

[puffinator]

Reliable source tells me that OEM type 914-6 HEs are being manufactured in the EU right now and should be available sometime later this year. I don't know the exact type metal or price point. But if crappy used HEs are fetching $$$$.00 then new ones will be a bargain at those prices. Get your checkbook or paypal ready.

any further rumor or word on these?

[johnhora]

I'll see if I can get an update....
they are to be stock OEM size and grade made by OEM supplier
price is to be determined yet

[horizontally-opposed]

SSI
Dansk
Porsche Classic

I would buy from any of these three, especially if price is $1500-2500. If rendered in stainless steel, all the better—but so long as the steel is good, I would choose an OE replacement over the existing setups. I can always have it coated, and it will surely last longer than used factory exchangers.

As to the rumor mill: I heard SSI sold everything except its 914-6 heat exchanger tooling to Dansk—and that the 914-6 tooling is 98-100% ready to go but that the owner wasn't happy that one pipe run's length wasn't quite the same as the others, and thus never put it into production (I could care less). Of course, this should be treated like the rest of the info floating around there until it can be confirmed: as a rumor.

As to whether this is a viable product: With NOS exchangers going for truly silly money, and no great options, I have to believe this would be viable for someone. Maybe not hugely profitable, and probably not right away, but there are a lot of people out there like me who are running headers with no heat because there are no solutions of acceptable quality. And yes, I would spend $1500-2500 to put heat in my conversion car. I'm not planning on selling, but I am planning on driving—and heat makes that a lot nicer.

Even though the stock 914-6 heat exchangers allowed a 3.0-liter to make 250 hp on Jerry Woods' dyno years ago (iirc), someone smart might try to set up the boxes so that different pipe sizes could be used to serve the big-bore engines. Maybe use spacers on the pipes at the right locations to make the boxes work with smaller pipes. Someone even smarter might work with a guy like Marty at MSDS to see if there isn't an elegant way to put factory-style boxes on his headers for an upcharge. As long as it looks like something the factory would have done, I'd be very happy to support that venture.

pete

[mepstein]

Marty makes great headers but he personally told me he's not going to make 914-6 heat exchangers. Hope these come to fruition.

[rick 918-S]

I had a pm exchange with Marty about making HE boxes for his headers. He indicated the factory units are still available but pricey. He also stated his headers were different enough that factory style HE would not fit.

I have a very rough set here I can use for patterns but I have too many irons in my fire to even think about it now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[SirAndy]

Speaking of B&B ... the heat collectors are in adequate.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[Kaeferfreund]

You guys remember this posts here?
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...p;#entry2113407

After reading it I ask Dansk in Europe directly and got the answer that they are indeed working on it and that they plan to offer it briefly. They also gave me a spare parts number (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
That is why it sounds good to me, but there's still no price and no date. One of the important oldtimer fairs in Germany will start mid of April this year. That could be a target for the initial presentation?