 Help: Car won't turn off, ...unless I pull the coil wire |
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| boxsterfan |
 Sep 28 2014, 03:45 PM
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#1
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914's are kewl  Group: Members Posts: 1,776 Joined: 6-June 03 From: San Ramon, CA Member No.: 791 Region Association: Northern California  |
Getting my car back together after replacing the fuel pump with a 2-port Bosch 69133 unit from Napa.
Car starts as normal, but when I turn her off she just keeps running. I can remove the key from ignition and she keeps running. And of course, this isn't some sort of overrun condition....actual running. Pull the coil wire and she dies as expected. Other notes, fuel pump is wired to switch power up front (previous owner did this). :dunno: |
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| messix |
Sep 28 2014, 04:21 PM
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#2
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AKA "CLUTCH KILLER"! Group: Members Posts: 6,995 Joined: 14-April 05 From: between shit kickers and pinky lifters/ puget sound wa.north of Seattle south of Canada Member No.: 3,931 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
did you reverse the wires on the new pump? it might now be grounding what should be the hot side.
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| boxsterfan |
Sep 28 2014, 04:36 PM
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#3
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914's are kewl Group: Members Posts: 1,776 Joined: 6-June 03 From: San Ramon, CA Member No.: 791 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(messix @ Sep 28 2014, 03:21 PM)  did you reverse the wires on the new pump? it might now be grounding what should be the hot side. Well, stupid question, should the hot wire be connected to "+" or "-"? Right now it is connected to "+" on the Bosch 69133 pump. Haynes manual says possibly bad ground to 31b (car keeps running after ignition switched off). No idea where 31b is. Possibly my ground is no good? If so, that makes me so happy because now I have to drain the tank again and disconnect to get at that ground wire. I don't see another location to ground another wire that is handy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hanged.gif) |
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| 76-914 |
Sep 28 2014, 04:54 PM
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#4
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Repeat Offender & Resident Subaru Antagonist Group: Members Posts: 13,484 Joined: 23-January 09 From: Temecula, CA Member No.: 9,964 Region Association: Southern California 
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QUOTE(boxsterfan @ Sep 28 2014, 03:36 PM) QUOTE(messix @ Sep 28 2014, 03:21 PM) did you reverse the wires on the new pump? it might now be grounding what should be the hot side. Well, stupid question, should the hot wire be connected to "+" or "-"? Right now it is connected to "+" on the Bosch 69133 pump. Haynes manual says possibly bad ground to 31b (car keeps running after ignition switched off). No idea where 31b is. Possibly my ground is no good? If so, that makes me so happy because now I have to drain the tank again and disconnect to get at that ground wire. I don't see another location to ground another wire that is handy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hanged.gif) Pull that tank 10 or 12 more times and it gets easy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) How do I know? I can pull/install my tank in less than 10 min's now. My only claim to fame. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) |
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| Rotary'14 |
Sep 28 2014, 05:14 PM
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#5
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 753 Joined: 24-April 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 3,977 |
Did your car turn off before you swapped the fuel pumps?
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| boxsterfan |
Sep 28 2014, 05:28 PM
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#6
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914's are kewl Group: Members Posts: 1,776 Joined: 6-June 03 From: San Ramon, CA Member No.: 791 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Rotary'14 @ Sep 28 2014, 04:14 PM) Did your car turn off before you swapped the fuel pumps? Yes. |
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| Mike Bellis |
Sep 28 2014, 05:31 PM
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#7
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Resident Electrician Group: Members Posts: 8,345 Joined: 22-June 09 From: Midlothian TX Member No.: 10,496 Region Association: None 
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31 on this schematic is the negative battery terminal. 31B might be the tranny strap? Check all your ground points first. 31B could also refer to a relay terminal or switch terminal.
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| messix |
Sep 28 2014, 05:50 PM
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#8
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AKA "CLUTCH KILLER"! Group: Members Posts: 6,995 Joined: 14-April 05 From: between shit kickers and pinky lifters/ puget sound wa.north of Seattle south of Canada Member No.: 3,931 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Sep 28 2014, 04:31 PM) 31 on this schematic is the negative battery terminal. 31B might be the tranny strap? Check all your ground points first. 31B could also refer to a relay terminal or switch terminal. the diagram for a '74 car might be better to work off of. this one is an early '73 |
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| Mike Bellis |
Sep 28 2014, 05:54 PM
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#9
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Resident Electrician Group: Members Posts: 8,345 Joined: 22-June 09 From: Midlothian TX Member No.: 10,496 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(messix @ Sep 28 2014, 04:50 PM) the diagram for a '74 car might be better to work off of. this one is an early '73 OK, but this one confuses some people. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)  |
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| boxsterfan |
Sep 28 2014, 06:03 PM
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#10
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914's are kewl Group: Members Posts: 1,776 Joined: 6-June 03 From: San Ramon, CA Member No.: 791 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Sep 28 2014, 04:54 PM) QUOTE(messix @ Sep 28 2014, 04:50 PM) the diagram for a '74 car might be better to work off of. this one is an early '73 OK, but this one confuses some people. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I don't see any choice but to take the tank out again next weekend and start over. Of all things, I did take the battery to chassis ground cable off last weekend and cleaned it up. I just took that off again, had a look and put it back on. It's actually cleaner and nicer than it was before. But the problem still persists... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) Who knows? Maybe it is the tranny ground strap. The car has been jacked up on its front wheels for a couple weeks now. Maybe that wiggled the trans ground strap loose (or it even broke). Of course, that's really just wishful thinking on my part hoping not to have to take the tank apart and out again. So before I take the tank out next weekend, how can I check the ground at the pump with a voltmeter? |
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| iamchappy |
Sep 28 2014, 06:11 PM
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#11
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It all happens so fast! Group: Members Posts: 4,893 Joined: 5-November 03 From: minnetonka, mn Member No.: 1,315 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
If your running an electronic ignition you may be getting current bleeding back in through the alternator gauge bulb blue wire. May need to place a diode in that wire. It happens....
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| boxsterfan |
Sep 28 2014, 06:24 PM
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#12
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914's are kewl Group: Members Posts: 1,776 Joined: 6-June 03 From: San Ramon, CA Member No.: 791 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(iamchappy @ Sep 28 2014, 05:11 PM) If your running an electronic ignition you may be getting current bleeding back in through the alternator gauge bulb blue wire. May need to place a diode in that wire. It happens.... Agree that this stuff happens, but not sure why? Replacing the fuel pump did that? Cleaning up the battery to chassis ground did that? I actually cleaned up the chassis ground next to the fuse box area a few weeks before the pump went out. |
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| boxsterfan |
Sep 28 2014, 07:43 PM
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#13
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914's are kewl Group: Members Posts: 1,776 Joined: 6-June 03 From: San Ramon, CA Member No.: 791 Region Association: Northern California |
Well, from bad to worse. Won't even start now. Either one of the fuel lines is crimped or I may not even have enough gas in it. I put in about 1.5 gallons. Pump is very loud and sounds as if it is working extra hard.
I'm running 30R9 nearly everywhere (except the 12mm filter to pump section) That 30R9 hose is not very forgiving when coiling/turning it. I guess I'll just pick up some of the BMW 9.5mm fuel line from PP that is much more flexible for the tank supply line where it needs coiled. The 8mm 30R9 return to tank seems to be OK (has enough space to coil up properly). Where can I find a list of all the chassis grounds to check out? One by the battery. One by the fuse box. Transmission ground strap. Others? |
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| ripper911 |
Sep 28 2014, 08:00 PM
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#14
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corde pulsum tangite Group: Members Posts: 2,920 Joined: 25-April 10 From: Powder Springs, GA Member No.: 11,654 Region Association: South East States |
The first things to check are the things that you touched during your last repair.
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| 57lincolnman |
Sep 28 2014, 08:56 PM
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 174 Joined: 14-September 10 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 12,175 Region Association: Southern California |
I had this problem and it was the ignition switch itself. The plastic ring cracks inside these and can cause this problem. Do you notice that there isn't the usual type of resistance in the switch? Hint: you can just stall the engine by letting out the clutch. It's easy to access (if you don't have a/c) with the access panel under the steering wheel.
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| HalfMoon |
Sep 28 2014, 09:14 PM
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#16
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 828 Joined: 13-November 12 From: Shenandoah Junction, WV Member No.: 15,144 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
QUOTE(boxsterfan @ Sep 28 2014, 09:43 PM) Well, from bad to worse. Won't even start now. Either one of the fuel lines is crimped or I may not even have enough gas in it. I put in about 1.5 gallons. Pump is very loud and sounds as if it is working extra hard. I'm running 30R9 nearly everywhere (except the 12mm filter to pump section) That 30R9 hose is not very forgiving when coiling/turning it. I guess I'll just pick up some of the BMW 9.5mm fuel line from PP that is much more flexible for the tank supply line where it needs coiled. The 8mm 30R9 return to tank seems to be OK (has enough space to coil up properly). Where can I find a list of all the chassis grounds to check out? One by the battery. One by the fuse box. Transmission ground strap. Others? For what it's worth that's exactly the sound my electric pump (on a sbc convert) makes when it's got no fuel to pump. Get's very loud and then....well you know the rest. |
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| boxsterfan |
Sep 28 2014, 09:36 PM
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#17
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914's are kewl Group: Members Posts: 1,776 Joined: 6-June 03 From: San Ramon, CA Member No.: 791 Region Association: Northern California |
Lots of good suggestions here:
1. Trans ground strap - was going to do this anyway 2. Ignition switch - This could be related to the inability of the car to turn off after turning on. 3. Loud new fuel pump (this is either not enough gas in the tank or crimped lines after the reinstall of the tank). Well, I need to get the fuel sorted out first in #3. I guess I am hoping that #2 or #1 above are why it won't shut off when the key is turned off. Where can I get a good ignition switch these days? I think have read before on these boards that quality can be an issue with these switches these days... |
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| boxsterfan |
Sep 28 2014, 09:38 PM
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#18
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914's are kewl Group: Members Posts: 1,776 Joined: 6-June 03 From: San Ramon, CA Member No.: 791 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(ripper911 @ Sep 28 2014, 07:00 PM) The first things to check are the things that you touched during your last repair. Well, my repair has been replacing a bad fuel pump. It ballooned into stripping/repainting the tank, replacing all the fuel hose with 30R9, replacing the fuel injector o-rings, replacing the intake runner boots and replacing the intake runner gaskets. |
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| boxsterfan |
Sep 28 2014, 09:40 PM
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#19
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914's are kewl Group: Members Posts: 1,776 Joined: 6-June 03 From: San Ramon, CA Member No.: 791 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(57lincolnman @ Sep 28 2014, 07:56 PM) I had this problem and it was the ignition switch itself. The plastic ring cracks inside these and can cause this problem. Do you notice that there isn't the usual type of resistance in the switch? Hint: you can just stall the engine by letting out the clutch. It's easy to access (if you don't have a/c) with the access panel under the steering wheel. I'm starting the car (when it was starting earlier today) with gear in neutral and no clutch depressed. Ignition switch does turn freely, but I don't have anything to compare it too (ie. a brand new one turning "not so freely"). |
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| etcmss |
Sep 29 2014, 03:44 AM
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#20
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etcmss Group: Members Posts: 183 Joined: 20-April 06 From: Lancaster, Ky Member No.: 5,899 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
I had this happen when putting gages back in to the dash. car would not turn off...
Swapped the ignition switch--not it, swapped the fuel pump relay--not it. checked all grounds clean to the chassis. Got out the 74 electrical schematic. I thought to pull each fuse one at a time until car died and then trace all fused loads. intent was to remove all fuse * wires with car running and see which one allowed the car to die. Drop the fuse panel and start the car. Went to fuse 8 (?) (supplies the fuel pump red-black wired that is switched thru relay panel) and pulled all output side wires one at a time. Then traced out what that supplied. another would be the Pelican electrical link to regulator circuit--- this link does a 73 http://www.pelicanparts.com/914/parts/Elec...lectric_73E.jpg regulator plate link http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/TechNotebook.htm http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zTN_Elect_R...e_Circuitry.jpg ground points http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zTN_Elect_GroundPoints.jpg Mine was the generator light bulb and socket. Another time a fuse kept blowing and it was the license plate lights being installed incorrect. so be skeptical of what you recently worked on and thought all was well. hope some of this helps. Gary |
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