European Parking Lights Say on Left Side, 3 fuses fell out when reaching for hood release Options

[Grump]

While at gas station 4 days ago, I reached in to release the hood to fill the tank. I grabbed the fuse panel and 3 fuses fell out. I was a block from home so I waiting until I got home to put them back in.

I didn't pay attention to what fuses they were. After putting them back in, I noticed the left side parking lights were on. The turn lever was in the neutral position. The right side works as it should. Turn signals and hazard flasher work as they should. I have a good schematic thanks to Jeff but I lack the ability to troubleshoot this #5 fuse circuit.

I don't necessarily need this "feature" and can just leave the fuse out, but it worked before and I would like to have it back to normal. I reenacted my motions, dropped the fuse panel and inspected it closely for short or grounds, dropped and changed the headlight switch and hazard switch. After 3 days I've gone as far as I can without some help.

Looking for help from those who may of had a problem with this circuit. It's getting 12V from somewhere. It's a 75..

Thanks. Bill

[SirAndy]

European Parking Lights

If the lever is in the neutral position, then your problem has nothing to do with the parking light option.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[Grump]

European Parking Lights

If the lever is in the neutral position, then your problem has nothing to do with the parking light option.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

You are correct. It's just that the right side comes on when right turn signal is on but the left stays on as long as fuse #5 is in. When light switch is pulled to parking light position, right comes on and of course, left side parking lights is on regardless of the headlight switch position. Thanks for the clarification..

[Grump]

European Parking Lights

If the lever is in the neutral position, then your problem has nothing to do with the parking light option.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

You are correct. It's just that the right side comes on when right turn signal is on but the left stays on as long as fuse #5 is in. When light switch is pulled to parking light position, right comes on and of course, left side parking lights is on regardless of the headlight switch position. Thanks for the clarification..

Short version is: when headlight switch pulled to parking light position, right side comes on, left side goes out. When pushed in to the off position, left lights come on and right side goes out..

[Grump]

Update..

There are 34 pages when searching for electrical problems. So far I've read 28 pages
detailing all sorts of problems, however, none yet that helped.

The majority stress the importance of checking and cleaning all grounds. I cleaned all my grounds, cleaned fuse holder, replaced every fuse with new ones, removed every bulb, removed every fuse one at a time, disconnected that circuit from light switch. The problem still exists. I'm still getting 12V at fuse #5.

In tracing the path, with wire goes from fuse #5 to the light switch and then diagram says it continues to connection 67, which I believe connects under the passenger seat. This where I get lost. The relay has been bypassed. I don't see how this is providing the 12V to the left marker circuit.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

[john77]

I'm a novice with this stuff, I'm learning as things on my 73 fail/go haywire (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif), so there's a chance I'm completely wrong, but looking at the wiring diagram, if you're getting a constant 12V at fuse 5 doesn't it have to be either the light switch or the steering column switch that's providing it? i.e. one of them is stuck closed/faulty.

There's only a single black/grey wire into the front of fuse 5 that provides the power. And, tracing back from fuse 5, that wire goes to the light switch first and then the steering column switch. So, logically, if something beyond the steering column switch was faulty it wouldn't be the cause of your problem because as long as the steering column switch was open there's no way 12V could get to fuse 5.* So my guess is it's your light switch.

Have you tried disconnecting the steering column switch? If the parking light stays on then that would point to a faulty light switch.

Oh, and 67, I believe, is the ignition/starting switch.

John

*this statement in no way takes into consideration the witchcraft that is the 914 wiring.

[Grump]

I'm a novice with this stuff, I'm learning as things on my 73 fail/go haywire (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif), so there's a chance I'm completely wrong, but looking at the wiring diagram, if you're getting a constant 12V at fuse 5 doesn't it have to be either the light switch or the steering column switch that's providing it? i.e. one of them is stuck closed/faulty.

There's only a single black/grey wire into the front of fuse 5 that provides the power. And, tracing back from fuse 5, that wire goes to the light switch first and then the steering column switch. So, logically, if something beyond the steering column switch was faulty it wouldn't be the cause of your problem because as long as the steering column switch was open there's no way 12V could get to fuse 5.* So my guess is it's your light switch.

Have you tried disconnecting the steering column switch? If the parking light stays on then that would point to a faulty light switch.

Oh, and 67, I believe, is the ignition/starting switch.

John

Thanks for your reply. Are you looking at a 75 schematic? I have the turn signal harness disconnected, I think that would eliminate that as being the problem. I can disconnect that gray/black wires from 58L of the headlight switch and the left parking lights still on. I have 2 wires on both sides of fuse 5. There is also 2 wires, 1 gray and 1 black connected to 58L of the light switch. I know diagram shows only 1. Maybe this extra wire has something to do with the European parking light feature. It's all Greek to me... Bill

*this statement in no way takes into consideration the witchcraft that is the 914 wiring. I totally agree..

[john77]

I'm looking at the 75 current flow diagram in the back of my Haynes manual - I don't have a schematic for a 75. I only see one wire - black/grey - into 58L, so I'm not sure what the other wires are for. Have you traced where they go?

When you say you have the turn signal harness disconnected do you mean the black/white wires that go from the turn signal switch to the turn signals? I'm pretty sure the turn signal circuit is separate from the parking lights, so shouldn't effect it. At least that's the case on my 73, and the 75 current flow diagram seems to verify that. The parking lights should also be connected to the column switch [okay, I just double checked and they are, if you find D on the schematic, that's the ignition switch. The grey wire connected to it goes to 30 - which is what E19, the parking light switch, is on.]

What colors are the wires either side of fuse 5? As far as I can see there should be one grey/black on the front of the fuse (nearest driver) and two grey/black on the back, one of which goes to the front parking light, the other the rear.

If there are two wires going into the front of fuse 5 have you tried disconnecting one to deduce whether one or both are giving you the 12V constant?

My car has parking lights. I'm not sure what difference there is, if any, between parking lights and 'european parking lights.' If there is a difference, I have a feeling it may be to do with the housings. Maybe someone else can chime in. Does your car have side markers too?

[Grump]

I'm looking at the 75 current flow diagram in the back of my Haynes manual - I don't have a schematic for a 75. I only see one wire - black/grey - into 58L, so I'm not sure what the other wires are for. Have you traced where they go?

When you say you have the turn signal harness disconnected do you mean the black/white wires that go from the turn signal switch to the turn signals? I'm pretty sure the turn signal circuit is separate from the parking lights, so shouldn't effect it. At least that's the case on my 73, and the 75 current flow diagram seems to verify that. The parking lights should also be connected to the column switch [okay, I just double checked and they are, if you find D on the schematic, that's the ignition switch. The grey wire connected to it goes to 30 - which is what E19, the parking light switch, is on.

What colors are the wires either side of fuse 5? As far as I can see there should be one grey/black on the front of the fuse (nearest driver) and two grey/black on the back, one of which goes to the front parking light, the other the rear.

If there are two wires going into the front of fuse 5 have you tried disconnecting one to deduce whether one or both are giving you the 12V constant?

My car has parking lights. I'm not sure what difference there is, if any, between parking lights and 'european parking lights.' If there is a difference, I have a feeling it may be to do with the housings. Maybe someone else can chime in. Does your car have side markers too?

Thanks for your reply. I disconnected the 3 connectors under the steering column. I assume they were for turn signal, wiper, and ignition. Trying to eliminate items that could cause the problem.

One #5 fuse, drivers side I have 2 wires, one grey and one looks like black with blue stripe. On the other side of the fuse there are 2 grey/black. It appears that these 2 go to 58L of the headlight switch, at least there are 2 grey/blk on this connection. I could not get continuity from one end to the other so I guess they are not the same 2 wires. I didn't separate either pair, they look factory to me. I will though if necessary.

But when I take these 2 off the headlights switch, the side markers stay on so how can they be the same? When I remove 30 on the light switch they go off as I think this is the unfused power.

My European parking lights did work before I knocked the fuse panel. With the ignition off and right turn signal up, the right side markers come on, now when I put the lever in the left turn position, the left side markers go out. I have to remove #5 fuse so the marker lights on the left side are not constantly on. Turn signal and flashers work as they should. Regards.. Bill

[john77]

Okay, sorry, but this is as far as I can help you. It sounds like a previous owner did some rewiring, so I have no idea what's going where.

Your schematic should show you that the two black/grey wires coming out of fuse 5 go to front parking light and the rear parking light.

There should also be a single black/grey wire going into the driver's side of fuse 5 and THAT'S the one that should go to 58L on the headlight switch. Have you traced the black/grey wires from 58L to figure out exactly where they go? Are there any other black/grey wires going into your fuse panel?

Taking the two black/grey wires off 58L won't make any difference to the parking lights being on or off if the switch isn't where the power is coming from, however those wires could still be the source of the 12V even if you disconnect them. Try checking the connector on the end of the black/grey wires with a multimeter (when disconnected from 58L) to see if 12V is still running through them.

Then if I were you I would figure out exactly which wire is putting 12V into fuse 5 and then try to trace it back to its source. That will give you a much better idea where the 12V is coming from, and so may provide a solution.

Good luck.

[john77]

Double post.

[Tom]

Bill,
I can't give you a quick answer here. I just have never had the need to troubleshoot that circuit. What I will do is look at the prints and draw up some diagrams to try to understand it better and see what I can come up with.
Tom

[Tom]

Bill,
Read your thread again.
The parking lights M11 and M12 will come on when either of two situations are present.
1 - when the headlight switch is turned to any position other than off.
2 - When the parking/ turn signal light stalk is turned to either right or left.
I suspected your parking light switch after studying the prints for a while. Now after reading your last post where turning the stalk to the left side, the lights go out. Put it to the middle, lights come back on. Sure looks like something is wrong with that parking light switch.
Tom

[Grump]

Bill,
Read your thread again.
The parking lights M11 and M12 will come on when either of two situations are present.
1 - when the headlight switch is turned to any position other than off.
2 - When the parking/ turn signal light stalk is turned to either right or left.
I suspected your parking light switch after studying the prints for a while. Now after reading your last post where turning the stalk to the left side, the lights go out. Put it to the middle, lights come back on. Sure looks like something is wrong with that parking light switch.
Tom

Thanks Tom. I have a spare headlight switch but same symptoms. I guess the spare could be bad also. The other wire going to the hot side of fuse 5 is black with a blue stripe. This wire does not show up on the diagram. This goes to 30b of the switch and is indeed the wire that is supplying the 12V. Diagram shows a black and green going to 30b.

I separated the 2 wires and the grey shows no voltage. I have not change any wires since I've had the car and this connection, grey and black/blue looks like it came from the factory that way, and not home made.

I made notes on the fuse block from my donor car and it shows only the grey/black as in the diagram. Why my current car wiring is different that the diagram and different from the other 75 is not clear. Both of my headlight switches shown continuity between 30 and 30b when switch is off. When pulled to parking light position, no continuity. Perhaps when I knocked the fuses loose, one somehow shorted the headlight switch. Regards.. Bill

[r_towle]

I remember once I wired up the front turn signals and parking lights wrong and one side stayed on....

Might want to review this connections

[Tom]

Bill,
Actually I was referring to the switch that is in the steering column. The part that controls when the right or left side parking lights are on.
30b is for the headlight motors. 58L is from the headlight switch to the parking lights. Sounds like someone has been doing some rewiring at some point.
I'll send these in case you don't have them.
Tom

[Grump]

Bill,
Actually I was referring to the switch that is in the steering column. The part that controls when the right or left side parking lights are on.
30b is for the headlight motors. 58L is from the headlight switch to the parking lights. Sounds like someone has been doing some rewiring at some point.
I'll send these in case you don't have them.
Tom

Thanks Tom. I do have these diagrams. Unfortunately they don't come with the knowledge on how to read them. My "extra" wire, black with blue stripe, connects to 30b and shows 12V until you pull switch out to parking position, then no voltage. My spare switch is the same.

This extra wire was married to the grey which is on the hot side of #5. It's been that way since I've owned the car and has been fine. As I said it looks factory. The age, crimping, and same connector as other double wires, leads me to think it was not done my any po. Since 30b is hot, I guess the headlight switch shorted. If not the switch, I'll pull fuse 5 and 6 and not have parking lights but who uses them anyway. Regards... Bill

[Tom]

Bill,
I left out that lights M1, M4 for the left and M3, M2 for the right also light at the same time as M11, M12. M4, M2 are the rear parking/ running lights. Don't think you will be able to just remove the fuses to fix this. Sorry to be the bearer of potentially bad news.
I can't imagine why there would be a black/blue wire where you have one. It is sure not on the prints being there.
You read the prints like the one I posted like a waterfall. Power in at the top and flows down to the bottom. The entire bottom line is ground. The numbers at the bottom are for reference. They do a couple of things for you. Remember your question about what the 67 in the yellow square at the parking switch meant? It means go to current track 67 ( another name for the numbers along the bottom ) , and look up toward the top until you find a yellow square that has a 30 on it. That's where the power is coming from.
They also are used to lead you to a current track corresponding to the numbers to the right of the circuit names on page 1. Say you want to look at the brake switch ( it is listed as stop light switch ) and is symbol F. Across from it you will see 51. Look at current track 51 going up to the top and you will see the brake light switch and circuit.
Tom

[etcmss]

attached is the Bowlsby link to front light wiring.

http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zTN_Elect_F...TurnSignals.jpg

It sounds like they are not wired right and may not have been noticed before.
I would recommend you check the turn signal/parking light bucket wiring and then the side marker light wiring to be as it should. Uncertain why you have an extra wire---have you traced back to source? (could it be a spliced in color to replace one that is missing--i.e substitute)
As stated this does happen when these front lights are wired wrong on assembly

I always found it successful to pull all the wires to the 4 lights and connect them one at a time. Usually connect the side markers and turn on light switches to check. The wire one front one, turn on to parking light and then full headlight----then do the other. It worked easier if the front tires are off to get better access.

Gary

[Grump]

Back to troubleshooting after 2 days of other obligations. As to the "extra" wire, I don't think that needs to be addressed now. It probably will come to play when I hook up the head lights, which I've been putting off. It was fine as is before so I don't see how this could be the problem. After working for years, I doubt that this wire decided that all of a sudden it wasn't, unless something else failed. I think the headlight switch is the fault.

I get continuity between 30 and 30b when switch is off and 30b is what this wire terminates on, with the other end on the hot side of fuse 5. 30 is the constant 12V. I guess my spare headlight switch could have the same short.

It would be great if someone with a spare good switch could check for continuity between 30 and 30b when the switch is off, just to be sure. Looking at the diagram, there is a thin line between 30 and 30b. Does this mean they are connected and there should be continuity? Your help is much appreciated. Bill