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> 914/6 oil leak, Case stud question
bcheney
post Oct 12 2014, 12:53 PM
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I have an original 6 engine in my 6 conversion car. I have an oil leak at the stud circled in the pic below. I have tried to torque the nut on this stud without success. I then double nutted the stud to see if maybe the stud and become loose. I was able to turn the stud in a bit so I thought I was making progress. When I removed the double nuts and placed a washer and nut back on to torque to value it won't snug up. Instead, as I torque the nut...the stud begins to turn out. I have a bad feeling about this....Please chime in with your wisdom.


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Luke M
post Oct 12 2014, 12:59 PM
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By the sounds of things the stud is pulling from the magnesium.
In order to fix it you will need to split the case and install an insert.
Sorry for the bad news but there's no other way to fix it.
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bcheney
post Oct 12 2014, 01:25 PM
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QUOTE(Luke M @ Oct 12 2014, 02:59 PM) *

By the sounds of things the stud is pulling from the magnesium.
In order to fix it you will need to split the case and install an insert.
Sorry for the bad news but there's no other way to fix it.


Well that was what I was afraid of...I will just have to watch the leak CLOSELY and deal with the mess is makes...Really sickening...I guess these old Mag cases are pieces of shit now due to their age. I had inserts done on all of the head studs when the engine was rebuilt...the rebuild only has about 5-10K miles on it. Didn't consider having all the case studs inserted as well.

by the way...I just spent $14K on a rebuld of our 3.2 911 engine and their are absolutely no funds to pay for this kind of deal on the 914 now...

Anyone else have and more wisdom?
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Mark Henry
post Oct 12 2014, 02:08 PM
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Clean it up real good to bare metal, degrease it and smear it with 5 minute epoxy.
Yes, it's not the correct repair, but it will stop the leak.
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GeorgeRud
post Oct 12 2014, 02:13 PM
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I had the same thing happen to me many years ago. That stud mounts just below the intermediate shaft bearing, and is not totally necessary if you're reasonable with the engine. My car had that stud removed, the case tapped for a bolt where the stud was, and a bolt with a washer installed. It held up until another stud pulled, then I had Supertec rebuild the engine with Casesavers throughout and their Supertec head studs installed.
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Luke M
post Oct 12 2014, 02:28 PM
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QUOTE(bcheney @ Oct 12 2014, 12:25 PM) *

QUOTE(Luke M @ Oct 12 2014, 02:59 PM) *

By the sounds of things the stud is pulling from the magnesium.
In order to fix it you will need to split the case and install an insert.
Sorry for the bad news but there's no other way to fix it.


Well that was what I was afraid of...I will just have to watch the leak CLOSELY and deal with the mess is makes...Really sickening...I guess these old Mag cases are pieces of shit now due to their age. I had inserts done on all of the head studs when the engine was rebuilt...the rebuild only has about 5-10K miles on it. Didn't consider having all the case studs inserted as well.

by the way...I just spent $14K on a rebuld of our 3.2 911 engine and their are absolutely no funds to pay for this kind of deal on the 914 now...

Anyone else have and more wisdom?



I hear you 911 engines are not cheap to rebuild. I had Ollie's do some work on my 2.7 case years ago. I had them install case savers, shuffle pins and inserts on all of the studs within the case. You may try the epoxy route but I don't think it will last too long.
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bcheney
post Oct 12 2014, 02:37 PM
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QUOTE(GeorgeRud @ Oct 12 2014, 04:13 PM) *

I had the same thing happen to me many years ago. That stud mounts just below the intermediate shaft bearing, and is not totally necessary if you're reasonable with the engine. My car had that stud removed, the case tapped for a bolt where the stud was, and a bolt with a washer installed. It held up until another stud pulled, then I had Supertec rebuild the engine with Casesavers throughout and their Supertec head studs installed.


George how long was it...or miles was it before another case stud pulled?
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Mark Henry
post Oct 12 2014, 02:43 PM
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QUOTE(Luke M @ Oct 12 2014, 04:28 PM) *

. You may try the epoxy route but I don't think it will last too long.

Working pretty good on my tractor, it was leaking a couple quarts a day, not a drop now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)
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rfuerst911sc
post Oct 12 2014, 02:46 PM
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Brian sorry to hear I don't visit here often since I sold my 914. You might get lucky with temp fixes but long term the case has to come apart. These mag cases were shit when new. I was recently turned on to Loctite 510 it's $$$ but seems to seal very well. Have you had a pro look at it like Donnie ? It can't hurt. Good luck.
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johnhora
post Oct 12 2014, 05:45 PM
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Sorry to say I have had that same problem and nothing works other than split the case....it is one of the dumbest bolts arrangements...long bolt that looks almost like a thru case bolt but oh no taps right into the mag case next to the oil pump lay shaft and will strip in a minute if ruffly handled....I tried everything to stop the leak....the leak just gets worse and then becomes a major oil leak...
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Cap'n Krusty
post Oct 12 2014, 06:24 PM
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I fixed one without taking the engine apart. Bored the hole for clearance for a helicoil, made a long tap, inserted a helicoil, made a flanged sleeve for the opening, and installed the stud. Took a while, but it resolved the issue and the engine ran like that for years. I may still have the tooling.

The Cap'n
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bcheney
post Oct 12 2014, 06:49 PM
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QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Oct 12 2014, 08:24 PM) *

I fixed one without taking the engine apart. Bored the hole for clearance for a helicoil, made a long tap, inserted a helicoil, made a flanged sleeve for the opening, and installed the stud. Took a while, but it resolved the issue and the engine ran like that for years. I may still have the tooling.

The Cap'n


Cap'n,

I was looking foward to you chiming in...much respect for your wisdom/experience. Boring the hole and not leaving shavings must have been tough and then working blind with the helicoil must have took much patience. I am interested to know if you find the tooling. Have a look for it when you can and let me know. I will send you a PM.

Thanks Brian
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sixnotfour
post Oct 12 2014, 06:51 PM
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brake clean the hole see if you can grab a few threads deeper if so . epoxy and a few threads and light torque saves you...ya not 100% correct but saves you time and $$$ all of the mag cases need a timesert in that location.. I have seen many of that stud glued in to solve the leak.. or have you're engine rebuilt and spend $$$ this stud is not that crucial.
But every case I do gets a insert on this stud...they all pull this one...
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bcheney
post Oct 29 2014, 05:22 AM
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QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Oct 12 2014, 08:51 PM) *

brake clean the hole see if you can grab a few threads deeper if so . epoxy and a few threads and light torque saves you...ya not 100% correct but saves you time and $$$ all of the mag cases need a timesert in that location.. I have seen many of that stud glued in to solve the leak.. or have you're engine rebuilt and spend $$$ this stud is not that crucial.
But every case I do gets a insert on this stud...they all pull this one...


Gonna try to fix this today on my day off. I appreciate all the comments. Why do they all seem to pull this one? Really hope I can have some success. Would be shame to have to split case. If it comes to that I most likely would have to do this myself. Approx. how many hours would it take a pro to handle the correct repair with a timesert? You would want to repair all the studs with certs wouldn't ya?
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carr914
post Oct 29 2014, 06:27 AM
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Did you send the picture to Mike?

Tell Leslie she can't drive anything Air-Cooled for a Month!
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Luke M
post Oct 29 2014, 07:59 AM
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QUOTE
Gonna try to fix this today on my day off. I appreciate all the comments. Why do they all seem to pull this one? Really hope I can have some success. Would be shame to have to split case. If it comes to that I most likely would have to do this myself. Approx. how many hours would it take a pro to handle the correct repair with a timesert? You would want to repair all the studs with certs wouldn't ya?



It depends if you are taking the engine apart and reassembling it yourself or
do you plan on taking it to a shop for it all?

You could easily have the engine apart in 2 to 3 hrs. As for the time certs you could also do that if you know what you are doing. I would insert all of the inside studs.
The mag cases will all pull these studs at some point in time and doing it while apart is cheap insurance. Did you have the head studs done ? If not plan on doing those too. I used Ollie's for my 2.7 build and was happy with the service there. I put my engine together taking my time over a two week period. I'm sure it could be done within 2 days if you have the time.
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bcheney
post Oct 29 2014, 09:40 AM
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Ok I removed the stud just a little while ago and the pics tell the story...As they say...that's racin...I am sad that my -6 is gonna be down for an extended period of time now... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) If anyone has anything encouraging to say please chime in.



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Luke M
post Oct 29 2014, 12:00 PM
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That doesn't look good.. It's time to split the case and fix it properly.
You could call Ollie's and see how much it would cost you to have them do all of the inserts. Otherwise try to locate some locally and do it yourself. I think either way the case needs to be split at this point.
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bob
post Oct 29 2014, 12:36 PM
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I had the same thing. I cleaned out the stripped threads with brake clean and a wicked long Q-Tip. (not a real Q-Tip, but one of those medical ones with material that doesn't fray...)

I bought a 150mm long tap and was able to tap about 10mm further with more threads. I found a longer stud, reinstalled it with locktite and it hasn't leaked a drop.

-bob
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bcheney
post Oct 29 2014, 01:10 PM
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QUOTE(bob @ Oct 29 2014, 02:36 PM) *

I had the same thing. I cleaned out the stripped threads with brake clean and a wicked long Q-Tip. (not a real Q-Tip, but one of those medical ones with material that doesn't fray...)

I bought a 150mm long tap and was able to tap about 10mm further with more threads. I found a longer stud, reinstalled it with locktite and it hasn't leaked a drop.

-bob


This is encouraging! Where did you find the 150mm long tap and longer stud? How long has it been since the repair or how many miles?
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