Transmission Cooling, Pictures and all pertaining info Options

[Jetsetsurfshop]

Hey Paddock Folks,
Searched around a bit for all info pertaining to transmission cooling. I have two side shifts coming next week and I want to prep them for track abuse. See some info about intermediate plates. Are they necessary to run lines for a pump?
I guess heres a list of questions
trans temp gauge?
sender placement?
fluid?
an line size?
pump?
intermediate plates?
schematics of all pumping?
Pictures help too
Thanks everyone.
Oh, if theres a thread on this already please help too. I missed it.

[Matt Romanowski]

Hey Paddock Folks,
Searched around a bit for all info pertaining to transmission cooling. I have two side shifts coming next week and I want to prep them for track abuse. See some info about intermediate plates. Are they necessary to run lines for a pump?
I guess heres a list of questions
trans temp gauge?
sender placement?
fluid?
an line size?
pump?
intermediate plates?
schematics of all pumping?
Pictures help too
Thanks everyone.
Oh, if theres a thread on this already please help too. I missed it.

Yes to the gauge. Drill a hole in the bottom of the case, tap for the NPT sender, and then put it in.

I had pretty good luck with Miller's Nanodrive and I'm using Lubrication Engineers now. It's expensive, but it's worth it.

Also, get your parts (ring and pinion, gear, bearings) REM polished and cryotreated. Trust me.

Use -10 lines. Out the drain, into the top of the case on to the gear stack and onto the pinion. Don't use a Mocal diaphram pump. They suck.

Yes to the intermediate plate. Call California Motorsports and get theirs.

I'll have to see what I have for photos.

[Jetsetsurfshop]

Does the intermediate plate have anything to do with a plumbing a pump/cooler?

[stownsen914]

Not sure this is common anymore, but I use a Jabsco Water Puppy pump to pump my tranny fluid. I believe they were used years ago before some of the ones that are marketed now as tranny fluid pumps became available. I've had it in the car a few years, and no issues so far. If you use that one, you have to get the optional impeller - I think it's made of rubber instead of plastic so the pump can handle debris without jamming.

Pretty much agree with Matt's comments. On mine I pump the oil back into the trans in 4 places. One for each gear cluster (1st/reverse, 2nd/3rd, and 4th/5th) and one for the ring and pinion. I have mine spraying where the gears mesh in the hopes that it will do the most good there.

[Jetsetsurfshop]

Pretty much agree with Matt's comments. On mine I pump the oil back into the trans in 4 places. One for each gear cluster (1st/reverse, 2nd/3rd, and 4th/5th) and one for the ring and pinion. I have mine spraying where the gears mesh in the hopes that it will do the most good there.

I thought just circulating the fluid through a cooler would be enough. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)
So how do you spray those clusters? Tap the case?
I found a few pictures on Patrick Motorsports website. Can anyone help explain?

[Matt Romanowski]

What they do with all those spots may be better, but the ring and pinion is what makes the most heat. I would say that is the first spot to drop it back in, then go with on the gear stack like Scott said.

The intermediate plate has nothing to do with the cooler or plumbing. It's good because it's stronger, holds the bearings better, and keeps the transmission from flexing as much.

[stownsen914]

I thought just circulating the fluid through a cooler would be enough. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)
So how do you spray those clusters? Tap the case?
I found a few pictures on Patrick Motorsports website. Can anyone help explain?

My spray bar setup looks a lot like the one in the pic you posted of the Patrick setup. I tapped the case in several places similar to what it looks like they've done. I hit the R&P from a different angle, if memory serves correctly. When choosing the places to tap and put fittings, I considered which direction the gears turn, so that the oil is drawn into the gears where they mesh.

Agree with Matt's comment that the R&P is the most critical one since it's the highest stressed.

There are some gains to be had just by dumping cooled oil back into the case without spraying the gears, but the spraybar is better, and becomes more important with higher output engines.

Scott

[jd74914]

Just out of curiosity, did either of you guys (Scott or Matt) use sized lines or orifices to control distribution (to favor the R&P, etc.)?

[Matt Romanowski]

I didn't. It just dumps in both sports (R+P and gear stack). Mine is not the most sophisticated setup.

[Jetsetsurfshop]

If your moving fluid around with a pump, do you still need a cooler? Does the pump need to run constantly?

[jd74914]

If your moving fluid around with a pump, do you still need a cooler? Does the pump need to run constantly?

Yes, you will need a cooler and you will want to run the pump continuously.

Just a pump may help a little because you would be better lubricating the gears, but one of the big gains from this setup is reducing fluid temperature. With only a pump you will actually slightly increase fluid temperature due to the pump inefficiency.

[stownsen914]

Just out of curiosity, did either of you guys (Scott or Matt) use sized lines or orifices to control distribution (to favor the R&P, etc.)?

I didn't restrict the lines to favor one oiling location over another. However I did use -3 fittings at each of the spray locations in an attempt to get a little pressure pushing the oil through, in the hopes that the oil will squirt at the gear mesh locations instead of more passively just dumping back into the gearbox. An approach like this may not be needed if you dump the oil back into the case just above the gears, since gravity would do the work for you in that case.

If you look at the picture of the Patrick setup, some of the inlets are in the side of the case, so you'd want to make sure the oil has some pressure behind it to get to the gears instead of just spilling out into the bottom of the tranny case.

If your moving fluid around with a pump, do you still need a cooler? Does the pump need to run constantly?

You definitely want a cooler. If you go to the trouble of adding a pump and especially a spraybar setup, adding a cooler is trivial. I'd say definitely worth doing. If you're trying to keep things simple, you could add the pump and cooler, and skip the spraybar setup at least initially. If you do the oil inlet and outlet on the trans using the oil fill and drain plugs. You could do a setup like this without disassembling the trans.

[pcar916]

There were quite a few topics covered in this old thread.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=161520

Good luck

[Jetsetsurfshop]

There were quite a few topics covered in this old thread.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=161520

Good luck

Just seen this link you posted up. Now I have some reading to do. Thanks.

[FourBlades]

Shane,

I need to set this up on my IMSA car transmission as well.

I have the pump and cooler but not the transmission.

It also had a screen type oil filter to clean the fluid before hitting the cooler.

Maybe we can team up and save some $ by doing 2 transmission?

What we need is a Dr. Evil clinic in Florida this winter and get his help.

John

[JoeSharp]

Shane,

I need to set this up on my IMSA car transmission as well.

I have the pump and cooler but not the transmission.

It also had a screen type oil filter to clean the fluid before hitting the cooler.

Maybe we can team up and save some $ by doing 2 transmission?

What we need is a Dr. Evil clinic in Florida this winter and get his help.

John

I'm up for that. I have one to do.

[stugray]

I have contemplated a pump that is driven with a belt off the axle.
Of course it would only pump when moving, but that is when it needs it...

Has anyone ever seen something like that?
I imagine that just about any belt driven oil pump would work.

[stownsen914]

I have contemplated a pump that is driven with a belt off the axle.
Of course it would only pump when moving, but that is when it needs it...

Has anyone ever seen something like that?
I imagine that just about any belt driven oil pump would work.

Hmmm, good idea. The only mechanical pumps I've seen are internal to the trans though. I guess a generic external dry sump pump could do the trick though. They tend to be pricy, but you'd only need a single stage pump for a trans. Most engine dry sump pumps are at least two stage. Another option would be a mechanical turbo scavenge oil pump. Or adapt a VW type 1 or type 4 engine oil pump - they're pretty simple and cheap.

[stugray]

I have contemplated a pump that is driven with a belt off the axle.
Of course it would only pump when moving, but that is when it needs it...

Has anyone ever seen something like that?
I imagine that just about any belt driven oil pump would work.

Hmmm, good idea. The only mechanical pumps I've seen are internal to the trans though. I guess a generic external dry sump pump could do the trick though. They tend to be pricy, but you'd only need a single stage pump for a trans. Most engine dry sump pumps are at least two stage. Another option would be a mechanical turbo scavenge oil pump. Or adapt a VW type 1 or type 4 engine oil pump - they're pretty simple and cheap.

I had the same thoughts.
I considered using a typeIV engine oil pump. I was even under the car holding one up while thinking about it.
I think the probelm is tha those pumps are not guaranteed to not leak a little on the side with the drive shaft input since a leak woudl just leak back into the case.
So I dont trust it.
However there are many cars in the junkyards with external belt driven oil pumps.
I just havent been in a pick-u-part since I thought about this.

[Matt Romanowski]

This sounds like an answer to the question nobody asked.

Why not just use the proven electric pumps that works?