Papa Smurf is finally back on track - OH NO! NOT AGAIN!, ...EDIT: it happened again!!! Options

[naro914]

EDIT - UPDATE: PLEASE GO TO POST #23 FOR JUNE 2015 UPDATE!!!

Hi all
Lately a handful of people have been PM'ing me asking about Papa Smurf and why I haven't posted much about what we've been doing with him. The real answer is...we haven't done ANYTHING in almost 2 years. So I thought I would post this up to explain what we've gone through to maybe help someone avoid the same issues we've had. Many of you have read the trials and tribulations we've been through with Huey...this is not quite as bad but frustrating all the same if not more...

So while you're trying to avoid all you're family obligations on this Thanksgiving morning (like I am), sit back and read this tale of woe...and give thanks to the fact that you do not have to deal with all this!!! I apologize for not having pictures of all the work that's been done. (I realized I didn't have any as I was typing. I may be able to get some later this weekend...sorry)

Keep in mind, Papa Smurf is a full on race car - not street legal at all

Back in 2011, we decided to upgrade our 2.2 liter/6. We came across a very strong and VERY fast 3.4 liter that we put in just in time for the Oct PCA race at CMP. Engine performed great, but I actually broke the suspension console on the drivers side! too much torque/power for the stock set up. So...we replaced the suspension mount points with the kit from Chris Foley and all was good.

Fast forward to Sept 2012. While at Roebling Road Raceway, Nadine heard a sound in the engine which upon examination turned out to be a spun rod bearing. The bearing was worn completely off, allowing the piston to hit a valve, break a rocker, and jam the rocker into the cam housing thus destroying the little oil supply tube in the process. So the engine got torn down, resurfaed the scored crank, replace the needed parts, and back in business. On advice from MANY race shops, we sent the crank to CCR which at the time was in California. Armondo from CCR is supposedly the "end all-be all" when it comes to Porsche cranks (more on that later). He did the work in about 4-5 weeks, good to go.

5 months later, again at Roebling, I was on lap 2 of my practice session for the PCA Club Race and all of a sudden "BANG". Uh oh.... got towed in. Back at the shop, this time, that same rod that spun last time had now broken. so...tear down, replace ALL the rods from Carillo to Pauter (long story there) send crank to Armondo - 4-5 weeks get crank back, rebuild with all new bearings, check everything out, etc. all good. Do 2 DE's and a Hillclimb after that, engine seems fine.

In June 2013, we do our first SCCA Hillclimb using Papa. On Sunday, I hear a funny noise in the engine so we stop running. It gets checked out at the shop and I'm told there's no problem, so 2 weeks later we make the 9 hr trek to Mid Ohio for the PCA Race. Again..on my second lap of my first practice - BANG. This time..its really bad. Oil everywhere. Broke a different rod which: busted a hole in the case, broke a couple valves, destroyed the GT3 oil pump, damaged a piston and cylinder, etc, etc, etc....

At this point we are obviously thinking WTF??? (OK, we've been thinking that all along but now...really????) so we look back on everything and see what we've done and what we can do different:
We had been running a stock 914/6 oil tank all this time, mounted in the normal 914/6 position. Maybe not enough oil? Knowing we had this monster GT3 oil pump ($1800 pump btw that is now toast) maybe the flow was too great, the lines too small (same -12 lines we had with the 2.2 engine...heck with the old 4 cylinder engine too to/from the cooler) and we were foaming the oil or starving the engine because not enough oil to keep up?? Nobody was absolutely certain...

So...now we needed to do a COMPLETE rebuild consisting of new case, new P&C's, new oil pump, couple new valves, this time a new crank...and of course while we were in there, we ported the heads, increasd the valves sizes, better springs, new cams, etc. We decided to back it down to a 3.2 but increased the compression and valve sizes, thus getting more HP & torque, but more easily sourced parts if need be and helped with my PCA race class....We had Armondo offset the rod journals and put bigger race bearing in (supposedly a trick way of getting more torque). All was back together and good, finally right?

Nope. First weekend out at VIR in Nov 2013, Nadine was on lap 2 (see a pattern here?) and heard that tell-tale knocking noise. Again...another spun bearing! Seriously???...this is getting absolutely crazy! This time, however, we found the problem - the oil line from the tank to the engine had collapsed on one of the bends, thus again starving the engine for oil...Can we ever catch a break???

And after all that..here's where it gets REALLY frustrating....

Just before Thanksgiving we send the crank back to Armondo, who has now moved to Texas. Our normal process is: we send the crank, he calls to say what's wrong and what it will cost, then 4 weeks or so later he gives me a final total with shipping, I overnight a check, he ships, all good. As you can see above, we've done this numerous times so we have a very good relationship going here (unfortunately). He had told me he feels so bad for the issues I've been having that he would give me a big discount and only charge for the outside work he has to pay for (nitriting) and the bearings. Fair enough. Just after New Years, I get a message from Armondo on how much I need to send him a check for. So I overnight a check and assume I would see the crank in a week.

A week goes by...no crank. I call him, leave a message. My mechanic Lou calls him...message. 2 weeks go by....I finally get him in early February!! and he says he is working on it now and I will have it by the end of Feb!! WTF? I get a sob story about how expensive the move to Texas was, and he needed my money to pay for the nitring and bearing BEFORE he got it done, not after like normal. I'm pissed, but he said he should have it done in a few weeks, I wait.

Early March...no crank. I will spare you the daily commentary of lies I got, but after 2 more months of "I'm working on it today and will ship tomorrow", I had a buddy of mine go to his place and pick up the crank, gears and bearings...at THE END OF APRIL!!! The work was only half done - no nitriting, no final polishing. I had him ship it all to Pauter and was told it would take 2-3 weeks to get the work on the crank done.

3 months later, with almost the EXACT SAME responses to my questions every week ("working on them now, will be out this week") we got everything back from Pauter in early August!!! yes...August 2014 for a spun bearing in November 2013!!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

While we were waiting, we did major changes to the oil system: All the lines from the tank to the engine are now 1" hard lines, new oil cooler, bigger (-16) lines from the engine to the cooler, added a small oil supply feeder resevior just before the engine as recommended by Peter Dawe that holds about 2 qts immediately before entering the engine, changed some of the engine wiring to have a different start up procedure (turn the starter with no ECU/Fuel/spark until there's oil pressure, then kick on the rest of the power to start the car), redirected the engine and oil tank vents, and I'm sure much more I can't remember....

Our first weekend out was the end of October at CMP. Everything worked perfectly (yes, we made it past Lap 2!!!), though we broke a brand new CV joint. Back home, we drained the oil - no metal!! Positive sign!!!

Two weekends ago we were at very cold VIR. Good three days (except broke a shift rod...another story for another day), but engine was good. Needs dyno tuning, but performed strong and solid.

Oh, and during all this time, we added a wing and splitter....




Here are a couple video's from the weekends: First one is at CMP, second at VIR. Engine sounds good and is fairly fast, but I should have easily been able to catch the guys in front of me at VIR...needs tuning. And I'm now moving on to setting up the suspension...

And there you have it... As I mentioned above, I will get pics of some of the key parts and post them on this soon... If anyone has any specific questoins, please ask and I will help any way I can. We've learned a lot during this process.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!! Have a safe and enjoyable Holiday Season!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwdeNOwLHfI




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MntEEKR0as4

[Mueller]

Bummer about the crank..what a pain!


Thanks for videos, brought a smile to my face and really got the blood going!

Car sounds great!

[stevegm]

I saw you listed in the results for the Statesville PCA Autocross, in the October Tobacco Roads newsletter. Where are you located? Any luck on finalizing Octeenerfest 2015 dates, to include in the calendar?

[EdwardBlume]

Lots to be thankful for it sounds like. Very smooth! Thanks for sharing!

[naro914]

Steve
Unfortunately....no on an Okteenerfest date (also note, it has a K not a C for Okteenerfest). I've contacted 6-8 places and either they can't do Sept/Oct next year or they are WAY too expensive for our group...or they do not return calls/emails.

our goal is to shoot for mid/late September....I just wish I had a firm date. Any way you can put it somwhere in September and say TBD?

BTW, we're in Charlotte on Mt Island Lake. You?

[two914-6s]

Tough luck story , awesome looking and sounding car.
That must be a blast to drive

[Porschef]

Sweet! Very cool. Looks like it was worth the wait, maybe not so much the aggravation...

BTW, nice steering wheel. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

I have one for sale with the hub (shameless plug) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[stevegm]

Steve
Unfortunately....no on an Okteenerfest date (also note, it has a K not a C for Okteenerfest). I've contacted 6-8 places and either they can't do Sept/Oct next year or they are WAY too expensive for our group...or they do not return calls/emails.

our goal is to shoot for mid/late September....I just wish I had a firm date. Any way you can put it somwhere in September and say TBD?

BTW, we're in Charlotte on Mt Island Lake. You?

Yes. We can do that. It will definitely be in September, right? What we can do is set September aside for Okteenerfest, and just below the featured photo include the event photo that Steve sent me, and include a description of the event and contact info or web address. We just won't include anything on the specific dates. Sounds good?

We are in Cornelius, just North of Charlotte.

[0396]

A big congrats on your efforts!
I've always admired your ride. 3.4, care to PM me your header choice and jetting?

Enjoy your Thanksgiving (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

[naro914]

We are in Cornelius, just North of Charlotte.

Really? PM me where. We are really close to Huntersville. We should get together sometime or I'll stop by.. You know Lou at Exclusive Motorwerks or John at Black Forest?

[stevegm]

We are in Cornelius, just North of Charlotte.

Really? PM me where. We are really close to Huntersville. We should get together sometime or I'll stop by.. You know Lou at Exclusive Motorwerks or John at Black Forest?

Yep. Small world. I will PM you.

[Chris Pincetich]

No shortage of drama from Huey and Papa Smurf! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
As always, enjoyed your stories, attention to detail, and tenacity in keeping your 914(s) racin. Fun to read while all the weemen are watching a cheesy holiday movie. Happy Thanksgiving! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[OllieG]

Sounds like a major headache Bob!..glad the car seems to be running well now.

We'll have to get that artwork of Papa Smurf figured out one day.

Gotta love those in-car vids.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[naro914]

Ollie
It would be great if we could get Papa in one of your prints, but I know how difficult that will be. not really 'stock' body looking...

Glad I could provide a bit of holiday diversion for some of you, if you REALLY want to waste some time, go to our website...LOTS of videos there for everything from autocrosses, hillclimbs, races, DE, and Targa Newfoundland to just drives through the mountains.
Link below.

Have a safe holiday weekend everyone!

[r_towle]

So basically, with a lot less typing, Papa don't suck.
Well, didn't suck, now it does...

[stownsen914]

Bob,

Papa Smurf has come a long way from when I rode with you and Nadine at Pocono back in the late 90s. Nice work. The car looks like a blast ...

Scott

[naro914]

So basically, with a lot less typing, Papa don't suck.
Well, didn't suck, now it does...

don't you have that backwards?
Didn't, did, now doesn't.

Bob,

Papa Smurf has come a long way from when I rode with you and Nadine at Pocono back in the late 90s. Nice work. The car looks like a blast ...

Scott

Wow...a blast from the past! Yeah, been a long and winding road with lots of huge potholes!!

If I could get the dyno tuner to get the car in this week, we might go to the track this weekend, or next (not something we could say while up in NJ that's for sure!!) He's a bit busy though...he's the lead engineer for Rum Bum racing.

[r_towle]

So basically, with a lot less typing, Papa don't suck.
Well, didn't suck, now it does...

don't you have that backwards?
Didn't, did, now doesn't.

Bob,

well, if it didn't suck, wouldn't you still be swapping in crankshafts and bearings?
Now that is really does suck, the bearings may last longer than two laps.

Now that it sucks, it doesn't suck.

[wndsnd]

Gee, did you use Glyco rod bearings this last build? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-...ontroversy.html


John

[naro914]

Gee, did you use Glyco rod bearings this last build? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-...ontroversy.html


John

Nope, Clevites. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)